Removed from 9/11 Truth Movement FB Group

[JSanderO]

Thanks for clarifying the speed electricity travels... But for all practical purposes for the distance involved it was as good as instantaneous.

 

[Hellbound]

JSanderO:

Yeah, close enough as makes no difference. But you know someone had to be pedantic about it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[beachnut]

People in the base would hear the impacts, most likely like an explosion sound, through the steel in 1/20 of a second after impact, and the through the air sound would be almost a second later.

Thus you have the bomb in the basement before impact of the flight, but after the impact. And we have simile again for 9/11 truth gullible followers with the "bomb in the basement" syndrome.

 

[Oystein]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204686781/

Yep, that's KenDoc's group. The largest 9/11-Truth group of them all, by quite a margin. Had been hovering around 38,700 members for a while (2018/19), jumped over 39K in July+August, and then suddenly grew by almost 1,000 members in just 5 days last week to crack 40K in more than 5 years at least.
Unfortunately, I don't have an inside look into it. I guess I need a new FB account one day... or borrow one XD

Mmm. looks like a "closed group". An interesting "rogues' gallery" of admins and mods.

Hmm haven't look at it in quite a while.

 

[Sherman Bay]

Just a small technical glitch; I don't think electricity travels at the speed of light. Close, but not quite. Does't really detract from your point, though...but thought I'd get it in before any pedantic "but wait, that's not right" crap starts

There are a lot of factors, but roughly speaking, electricity travels about 90% or so the speed of light. Still WAY faster than sound though!

Thanks for clarifying the speed electricity travels... But for all practical purposes for the distance involved it was as good as instantaneous.

I don't know the particulars about when the sounds and actions happened in this event, so I'm not going to argue which came first. But I caution anyone who does to consider some variables.

Vibrations can travel through solid objects (steel, earth, whatever), arrive somewhere, and generate an air-wave sound. Under the right conditions, such sound may appear to arrive before the merely air-wave sound.

It's also possible for sounds to reflect off of hard, solid objects (a NY skyscraper, for instance), and arrive at the listener's ear later than the original. (This may explain the sounds reported coming from the Dallas "grassy knoll" -- not two shooters, but one shooter and an echo from the concrete wall.)

Add all these well-known physical phenomena to memories that may be faulty and testimony that may be distorted by the "fog of war", and it takes a lot of chutzpah to claim, without serious analysis, that event X occurred before or after event Y.

 

[Oystein]

...
Add all these well-known physical phenomena to memories that may be faulty and testimony that may be distorted by the "fog of war", and it takes a lot of chutzpah to claim, without serious analysis, that event X occurred before or after event Y.

Particularly when the witnesses are in a windowless basement and have not the slightest idea what the loud sounds they are hearing could possibly be. Rodriguez (or insert any other name down there) heard a bang and a boom and a rumble, and perhaps another boom and another rumble. And at the time could never have guessed that a plane had crashed, that fuel was deflagrating, that elevators were falling, and what not.

They learned all that MUCH later.

Who know what preliminary hypotheses they formed in their heads. "Bombs ..."?

And then they had to unlearn and make sense of - what then was already - their former memories. It is nigh impossible that this recollection is true to the original sensations.

 

[pgimeno]

His first description, from a phone interview with CNN aired on 2001-09-11 at 13:30, talked about a rumble, not an explosion:


Transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/11/bn.24.html

I was in the basement, which is the support floor for the maintenance company, and we hear like a big rumble. Not like an impact, like a rumble, like moving furniture in a massive way. And all of sudden we hear another rumble, and a guy comes running, running into our office, and all of skin was off his body. All of the skin.​

Remember how truthers give so much importance to the first descriptions? Except when it's inconvenient, maybe.

ETA: My guess: first rumble = plane impact; second rumble = elevators crashing.

 

[JSanderO]

We should be able to agree that:

the crash MIGHT cause shorts and circuit protection in the sub basement exploding (almost instanteously)

air born sound of the plane crash arrives at street level or below in about 1 second after the impact

vibrations and sound transmitted though the structure would arrive AFTER the plane strike.

This is confusing to the observer.

 

[Redwood]

Originally Posted by MattNelson
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204686781/

Mmm. looks like a "closed group". An interesting "rogues' gallery" of admins and mods.

You'd think that a group dedicated to "The Truth" (TM) would be wide open rather than closed. Or at least, if it were dedicated to private discussion, it would be about how to reach out to the public at large and especially to engineers. There are FB pages dedicated to civil engineering that have hundreds of thousands of followers.

Truthers never post to these pages. The explanation is left to the Truther.

 

[Brainster]

Rodriguez no longer believes any of that crap. Before I came here I used to post on the Screw Loose Change blogspot comments and Willie showed up to apologize and set the record straight about how he bought into a pack of lies thinking it would do some good.

He's a good guy. Here's a sample:

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2011/05/screw-loose-change-to-host-debate.html

Make sure to read the comments because they're hilarious.

Back in 2007 Willie was condemned by the "No Planes" crowd as a Government plant because of his work with *GASP* James Randi:

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/06/no-planers-go-after-willie-rodriguez.html

Anyway, Willie now lives in the real world today. Truthers who quote him are morons.

Let me just echo the point about him being a good guy. We used to talk over the phone back in the day and he was always honest and straightforward with me. He managed to put his life back together and used his 9-11 experience as a motivational speaker. I have photos around somewhere of him addressing large crowds.