The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

[Stacyhs]

It doesn't matter Stacy. Vixen's theory about Amanda being jealous was something she made up in her head as was the conspiracy where Amanda got two boys she barely knew to kill her roommate of a month.

What's interesting to me is that neither Amanda or Raffaele have ever been accused of violence before the murder or since. You would think in the 60 years of life between them there would be some history of the psychopathic behavior Vixen is convinced that is part of their nature.

I'm really curious if Vixen will ever conclude that she got this wrong? Does she wake up some day and admit even to herself she may have made a bad call? Or is this like her religion where this has become a matter of faith. That she has put a flag in the ground and despite the overwhelming evidence defend it to her dying day?

The 'jealousy' theory was never based on any evidence. It was entirely made up in the fevered imaginations of those desperately trying to find some motive for AK to hate MK. Not a single person ever reported Amanda saying anything negative about Meredith. No complaints about her, no snarky remarks about her, no arguments, no raised voices were ever reported. In fact, the boys downstairs, including Silenzi who was 'dating'* Meredith reported they had a normal relationship, one of friendship. The Italian girls said only that they spent less time together as time went by as Amanda chose to hang out with Italian speakers. But we do know that the two girls still socialized with the chocolate festival and the concert being evidence of that.

* I hate to call it 'dating' as Silenzi never took Meredith out on a true date. Their 'dates' consisted of going out in a group to party. Meredith complained that Giacomo seemed to ignore her when she ran into him in public.

Regarding your last paragraph, imo, the answer is 'no'. She has dug in and will remain there.

 

[acbytesla]

FIFY

It is how Knox' neighbourhood was described at the time. Just a straight forward statement of fact, not a value judgment.

In fact, the late Morty Toad (Martin Bernier), a Seattle resident, said much the same thing. He mentioned Knox would have had to cycle some distance to her college (school?) every day along a busy thoroughfare. He thought she had it relatively tough in that respect.

You claim it is just minutes from down town. Which one of you is correct? Why would you need to have a long cycle trek in that case?

The UW and/or Seattle Prep high school is not in downtown Seattle. And yes West Seattle it is only minutes away from downtown but not during rush hour. That's when a 15 minute drive can turn into 45 minutes or longer.

If I worked in downtown Seattle and lived in many places in West Seattle I would ride a bike. I bet it would be faster because of traffic.

The problem in riding the bike to Seattle Prep are the hills. Seattle is notorious for its hills. Prep is located on the North End and on top of Capitol Hill. Downtown Seattle is sort of on the same hill but on the South end of it and at a much lower elevation. But at 17 years old I'm sure I could have done it in a half hour to 40 minutes if not faster and enjoyed it. BTW, a look on Google maps would give you an idea.

 

[Bill Williams]

The UW and/or Seattle Prep high school is not in downtown Seattle. And yes West Seattle it is only minutes away from downtown but not during rush hour. That's when a 15 minute drive can turn into 45 minutes or longer.

The running joke: what town is an hour by car from Seattle.

Seattle.

 

[Stacyhs]

The running joke: what town is an hour by car from Seattle.

Seattle.

Seattle traffic is notorious and all those awful one way streets!

 

[acbytesla]

The 'jealousy' theory was never based on any evidence. It was entirely made up in the fevered imaginations of those desperately trying to find some motive for AK to hate MK. Not a single person ever reported Amanda saying anything negative about Meredith. No complaints about her, no snarky remarks about her, no arguments, no raised voices were ever reported. In fact, the boys downstairs, including Silenzi who was 'dating'* Meredith reported they had a normal relationship, one of friendship. The Italian girls said only that they spent less time together as time went by as Amanda chose to hang out with Italian speakers. But we do know that the two girls still socialized with the chocolate festival and the concert being evidence of that.

* I hate to call it 'dating' as Silenzi never took Meredith out on a true date. Their 'dates' consisted of going out in a group to party. Meredith complained that Giacomo seemed to ignore her when she ran into him in public.

Regarding your last paragraph, imo, the answer is 'no'. She has dug in and will remain there.

I don't like comparing Amanda and Meredith. I'm sure both of them decided to attend school in Italy to have fun as much as it was to learn. A 20 year old drinking partying and having sex is pretty normal. Meredith and Amanda spent time together when they were available to do that.

I also doubt that the Italian girls had much of a clue about Amanda and Meredith. This was 4 different girls all going in different directions. Amanda had been living there for a month and Meredith just a few weeks longer. And Amanda had a job and attended a different school.

Could they have had arguments? Could there have been jealousy? Sure. But there is no evidence to support these claims. And what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

And even if they hated each other's guts there is nothing to suggest that Amanda would respond with physical violence.

 

[acbytesla]

The running joke: what town is an hour by car from Seattle.

Seattle.

Don't get me started Bill about Seattle traffic. You can be minutes away and have it take an hour. I use to be the first one at the office every day not because I was Gung Ho but because at 5:30 in the morning you can drive the speed limit plus 10 while at 6:30 you're lucky if you can drive at half the limit. Crawling along at 10 mph on a freeway with a posted 60 mph is not uncommon on I5 or I405 at the wrong part of the day.

 

[Stacyhs]

I don't like comparing Amanda and Meredith. I'm sure both of them decided to attend school in Italy to have fun as much as it was to learn. A 20 year old drinking partying and having sex is pretty normal. Meredith and Amanda spent time together when they were available to do that.
I also doubt that the Italian girls had much of a clue about Amanda and Meredith. This was 4 different girls all going in different directions. Amanda had been living there for a month and Meredith just a few weeks longer. And Amanda had a job and attended a different school.

Could they have had arguments? Could there have been jealousy? Sure. But there is no evidence to support these claims. And what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

And even if they hated each other's guts there is nothing to suggest that Amanda would respond with physical violence.

Comparing them is what is done by the PGP; they present MK as the 'nice' girl that everyone loved, the 'good' girl, the serious girl. Amanda, they just make up crap about just like Mignini did. She's the "slut", went to a uni that wasn't 'really' a true university, etc. They try to present MK being an Erasmus student as something superior (it's not). It's completely ridiculous but that's all they've got so they cling to it.

 

[TruthCalls]

I don't like comparing Amanda and Meredith. I'm sure both of them decided to attend school in Italy to have fun as much as it was to learn. A 20 year old drinking partying and having sex is pretty normal. Meredith and Amanda spent time together when they were available to do that.

I also doubt that the Italian girls had much of a clue about Amanda and Meredith. This was 4 different girls all going in different directions. Amanda had been living there for a month and Meredith just a few weeks longer. And Amanda had a job and attended a different school.

Could they have had arguments? Could there have been jealousy? Sure. But there is no evidence to support these claims. And what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

And even if they hated each other's guts there is nothing to suggest that Amanda would respond with physical violence.

Like so many of the PGP fantasies, the claim of jealousy not only has nothing to substantiate it, but it is in fact contradicted by the facts. Amanda had plenty of money. Amanda was considered a very attractive woman. Amanda was living her dream of going to school in Italy. Amanda was dating a guy who had money, his own apartment and drove a new A3. And according to everyone around them, they were both hopelessly infatuated with one another. Things could not get any better for Amanda. There was absolutely nothing about Meredith for Amanda to be jealous of. Oh, wait... crap, I stand corrected. Meredith had a much better view out her window than Amanda. Well that's certainly grounds for murdering your roommate, no?

As to your question, AC, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of Vixen ever seeing the light. Even if she did wake up one morning and realize just how foolish her fantasies concerning this case were, she'd certainly never admit it. After all, her anti-Amanda PR campaign is likely one of her life's finest accomplishments. You think she's going to throw it all away for the sake of correctness and accuracy?

 

[acbytesla]

Comparing them is what is done by the PGP; they present MK as the 'nice' girl that everyone loved, the 'good' girl, the serious girl. Amanda, they just make up crap about just like Mignini did. She's the "slut", went to a uni that wasn't 'really' a true university, etc. They try to present MK being an Erasmus student as something superior (it's not). It's completely ridiculous but that's all they've got so they cling to it.

I know. But we both know they are being dishonest. Both girls experimented with marijuana. Both enjoyed the occasional party and neither were virgins. They were twenty year olds thousands of miles away from home. Sowing a few wild oats is to be expected. How dedicated as students while they were is really unknown as both just got there.

The comparison is absurd because their education had NOTHING to do with the murder. It's just about painting Amanda negatively. And what I really hate about it is it's just old fashioned prudish sexism. It portrays a woman's sexuality as a negative. One is a good girl because she refrains from sex? Who thinks that way in 2019?

 

[acbytesla]

As to your question, AC, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of Vixen ever seeing the light. Even if she did wake up one morning and realize just how foolish her fantasies concerning this case were, she'd certainly never admit it. After all, her anti-Amanda PR campaign is likely one of her life's finest accomplishments. You think she's going to throw it all away for the sake of correctness and accuracy?

I really don't believe she would ever admit it publicly. She couldn't even admit Amanda took a commercial flight home after I showed video of Amanda going through the gates and the British Airways 747 touching down in Seattle. I just wonder if she has it in her to acknowledge at least to herself she was probably wrong.

 

[Vixen]

Cite your source. I doubt she described as you did.

Sorry, are you denying Knox had to cycle to school/college?

 

[Vixen]

Hoo, boy. Where to begin when presented with such a pathetic, desperate attempt to avoid admitting you were wrong that Kulman wrote WTBH? Kulman has never been listed even so much as a co-author and said HERSELF that she was a 'contributor'. But, according to you, she was just trying to be "neutral" and "diplomatic" for some unknown reason.

What I would like to know is just how YOU would know that Kulman really wrote WTBH? Did Kulman take you into her confidence and reveal this secret?Come on, Vix, tell us how YOU know this otherwise unknown 'fact'?



No, it doesn't. So can you explain why you claimed it was "run-down" (post #2646)



Not her house directly but you did state that "Curt and Cassandra lived in a nicer neighbourhood(#2646) which, besides being totally untrue, was a blatant attempt to present Curt not caring for Amanda and Deanna as much as his two younger daughters. This little gem from you supports that sad attempt:

Yep, Curt bought a house two blocks away from her and was totally involved in her life* yet you somehow spin that into "abandoning" her. Your logic is well...not logical.
*(try reading WTBH)

I repeat again, you have no evidence that Curt wasn't paying child support and that instead, Edda went to court to request a change in the amount of support paid, do you? Do you?




Yes, it's a pretty standard middle class house in a very desired neighborhood. Which is all we've ever said. And no, I never said it was 'special' and provided a picture of it. Just how does your brain work? It was YOU who described it as being in a 'run down, working class neighborhood'.

By the way, Curt was a Vice President of Finance at Macy's (a very nice store) and Edda was a mathematics teacher with a master's degree. Hardly "blue collar".



LOL! Stop talking about things you know nothing about. Their houses are very comparable. Curt's is 30 sq ft. bigger but Edda's is worth more.

Compare the two houses.

Mellas (3 bed, 2.25 bath, 2400 sq., est. value $802K Realtytrak)

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695d7d476fc430f.jpg[/qimg]

Knox (5 Beds, 3 Baths, 2430 sq ft, est. value $750K Realtytrak)
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695d7d479a63ba3.jpg[/qimg]

You really don't know a lot about this case, do you?

Re Curt Knox:

Knox made herself what she was or did her family contribute?
Curt Knox’s seeming blind rage at Edda during their marriage and for years after are an open secret among some in Seattle. He apparently had one of the worst records in the entire US in not paying child support to Edda for Amanda and Deanna, and had again and again to be taken to Superior Court by Edda to be forced to make his monthly payments.

Here are two public records showing two instances of him being taken to Superior Court by Edda.

And we are told that Curt Knox was counseled by one or more judges to get himself some anger management therapy. Apparently he wasn’t formally required to take anger management therapy. He may have done so, though there seems no record that he ever did.

Okay. Not all kids growing up in such toxic family situations suffer, but some do, and a few end up with their hard wiring seriously messed up. Some even end up as drug-takers and murderers.

It's amazing you claim it's untrue without knowing any of the facts. That is your MO.

 

[Vixen]

I really don't believe she would ever admit it publicly. She couldn't even admit Amanda took a commercial flight home after I showed video of Amanda going through the gates and the British Airways 747 touching down in Seattle. I just wonder if she has it in her to acknowledge at least to herself she was probably wrong.

A last minute ticket to the USA from Europe will cost you close on GBP10,000.

I am hugely sceptical she could be acquitted by bent judge Hellmann (who was immediately retired afterwards as unfit to be a judge) and step on a plane to the US within 12-hours, when her parents claimed to be broke, having to remortgage their homes.

No, there was fore knowledge there, when legal opinion was that the pair was guilty as charged.

 

[Vixen]

Comparing them is what is done by the PGP; they present MK as the 'nice' girl that everyone loved, the 'good' girl, the serious girl. Amanda, they just make up crap about just like Mignini did. She's the "slut", went to a uni that wasn't 'really' a true university, etc. They try to present MK being an Erasmus student as something superior (it's not). It's completely ridiculous but that's all they've got so they cling to it.

I assure you being on a highly sought after Erasmus university scheme is infinitely superior to signing on for a three-month language course that anyone can sign up for, open to the public like an evening class.

Even Raff himself had an Erasmus exchange in Germany once.

It is twisted PR at its height to claim Erasmus is rubbish (Mez) and that a run of the mill short language course (Knox) is equivalent.

Unfortunately for you there is only one truth no matter how much you try to dress up falsities in great colour.

 

[Vixen]

Hoo, boy. Where to begin when presented with such a pathetic, desperate attempt to avoid admitting you were wrong that Kulman wrote WTBH? Kulman has never been listed even so much as a co-author and said HERSELF that she was a 'contributor'. But, according to you, she was just trying to be "neutral" and "diplomatic" for some unknown reason.

What I would like to know is just how YOU would know that Kulman really wrote WTBH? Did Kulman take you into her confidence and reveal this secret?Come on, Vix, tell us how YOU know this otherwise unknown 'fact'?



No, it doesn't. So can you explain why you claimed it was "run-down" (post #2646)



Not her house directly but you did state that "Curt and Cassandra lived in a nicer neighbourhood(#2646) which, besides being totally untrue, was a blatant attempt to present Curt not caring for Amanda and Deanna as much as his two younger daughters. This little gem from you supports that sad attempt:

Yep, Curt bought a house two blocks away from her and was totally involved in her life* yet you somehow spin that into "abandoning" her. Your logic is well...not logical.
*(try reading WTBH)

I repeat again, you have no evidence that Curt wasn't paying child support and that instead, Edda went to court to request a change in the amount of support paid, do you? Do you?




Yes, it's a pretty standard middle class house in a very desired neighborhood. Which is all we've ever said. And no, I never said it was 'special' and provided a picture of it. Just how does your brain work? It was YOU who described it as being in a 'run down, working class neighborhood'.

By the way, Curt was a Vice President of Finance at Macy's (a very nice store) and Edda was a mathematics teacher with a master's degree. Hardly "blue collar".



LOL! Stop talking about things you know nothing about. Their houses are very comparable. Curt's is 30 sq ft. bigger but Edda's is worth more.

Compare the two houses.

Mellas (3 bed, 2.25 bath, 2400 sq., est. value $802K Realtytrak)

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695d7d476fc430f.jpg[/qimg]

Knox (5 Beds, 3 Baths, 2430 sq ft, est. value $750K Realtytrak)
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695d7d479a63ba3.jpg[/qimg]

Incidentally, it is ridiculous your quoting today's house prices.

My parents bought their house in London for a small sum of money (as there were a couple of tenants occupying it) back in the day. By the time they sold up, in the mid-2000's, they got nigh on £1m for the same property, mostly because it was easy access to the West End. Even a basic studio in Camden will now cost you on average (according to Zoopla) £680K. Silly prices doesn't mean the property is anything particularly special. It's to do with the proximity to the City.

 

[Lince]

I assure you being on a highly sought after Erasmus university scheme is infinitely superior to signing on for a three-month language course that anyone can sign up for, open to the public like an evening class.

Even Raff himself had an Erasmus exchange in Germany once.

It is twisted PR at its height to claim Erasmus is rubbish (Mez) and that a run of the mill short language course (Knox) is equivalent.

Unfortunately for you there is only one truth no matter how much you try to dress up falsities in great colour.

I have had attending my courses many Erasmus students from different countries. Some of them were good, however most of them were quite weak academically. So being an Erasmus student is not a guarantee of quality.

 

[Stacyhs]

You really don't know a lot about this case, do you?

Re Curt Knox:

Quote:

Knox made herself what she was or did her family contribute?
Curt Knox’s seeming blind rage at Edda during their marriage and for years after are an open secret among some in Seattle. He apparently had one of the worst records in the entire US in not paying child support to Edda for Amanda and Deanna, and had again and again to be taken to Superior Court by Edda to be forced to make his monthly payments.

Here are two public records showing two instances of him being taken to Superior Court by Edda.

And we are told that Curt Knox was counseled by one or more judges to get himself some anger management therapy. Apparently he wasn’t formally required to take anger management therapy. He may have done so, though there seems no record that he ever did.
>snipped for stupidity<

It's amazing you claim it's untrue without knowing any of the facts. That is your MO.

Oh, the IRONY!
Your 'source' is Slick Pete Quennell. No wonder you provided no evidence of your just copied from him nonsense because neither did he. Not surprising. None of the above is true. "We are told"...BWAAAAHAAAHAAAA!


The first temporary order of support is from 1989, the year Curt and Edda divorced. This is the initial temporary order of support from that divorce. Notice that the PETITIONER IS CURT, EDDA IS THE RESPONDENT. You do know the petitioner is the person who brings the court action, right?

In some divorce proceedings, a temporary order of child support may be issued and enforced until a permanent order is issued in the final divorce decree. Temporary orders often come about when parents cannot agree on how much child support is owed.

It had nothing to do with Curt not paying his child support.

The second order was SEVEN YEARS later (1996), and once again, brought by Curt, not Edda. This is an order of back child support that goes to "DOB 12:20:1988". That would be her sister Deanna's birthday, not Amanda's. This may be where you got the false story that Curt denied Amanda was his daughter; he may have not been paying child support for Deanna.

What is NOT a guess is that your and Pete's nonsense about Edda taking Curt to court over and over again for not paying Amanda's child support is FALSE. As for Pete's pathetic "And we are told that Curt Knox was counseled by one or more judges to get himself some anger management therapy," there is also no evidence of that ever happening. I wonder if this is the same person who "told" (wink,wink, finger alongside nose) Slick Pete that Sollecito and Gumbel would be publicly apologizing to Mignini any day now. How many years has it been?

 

[toto]

A last minute ticket to the USA from Europe will cost you close on GBP10,000.

I am hugely sceptical she could be acquitted by bent judge Hellmann (who was immediately retired afterwards as unfit to be a judge) and step on a plane to the US within 12-hours, when her parents claimed to be broke, having to remortgage their homes.

No, there was fore knowledge there, when legal opinion was that the pair was guilty as charged.

I don't know about Perugia, but I could get a single ticket to Seattle from Florence tomorrow for £544 . Of course there would be more than one person travelling, but I wonder if your pricing is on the higher end of what is possible.

 

[RoseMontague]

Oh, the IRONY!
Your 'source' is Slick Pete Quennell. No wonder you provided no evidence of your just copied from him nonsense because neither did he. Not surprising. None of the above is true. "We are told"...BWAAAAHAAAHAAAA!

The first temporary order of support is from 1989, the year Curt and Edda divorced. This is the initial temporary order of support from that divorce. Notice that the PETITIONER IS CURT, EDDA IS THE RESPONDENT. You do know the petitioner is the person who brings the court action, right?


It had nothing to do with Curt not paying his child support.

The second order was SEVEN YEARS later (1996), and once again, brought by Curt, not Edda. This is an order of back child support that goes to "DOB 12:20:1988". That would be her sister Deanna's birthday, not Amanda's. This may be where you got the false story that Curt denied Amanda was his daughter; he may have not been paying child support for Deanna.

What is NOT a guess is that your and Pete's nonsense about Edda taking Curt to court over and over again for not paying Amanda's child support is FALSE. As for Pete's pathetic "And we are told that Curt Knox was counseled by one or more judges to get himself some anger management therapy," there is also no evidence of that ever happening. I wonder if this is the same person who "told" (wink,wink, finger alongside nose) Slick Pete that Sollecito and Gumbel would be publicly apologizing to Mignini any day now. How many years has it been?

Amazing.

I really don't think this poster cares that they post such nonsense.

 

[Stacyhs]

I assure you being on a highly sought after Erasmus university scheme is infinitely superior to signing on for a three-month language course that anyone can sign up for, open to the public like an evening class.

Even Raff himself had an Erasmus exchange in Germany once.

It is twisted PR at its height to claim Erasmus is rubbish (Mez) and that a run of the mill short language course (Knox) is equivalent.

Unfortunately for you there is only one truth no matter how much you try to dress up falsities in great colour.

You keep claiming how prestigious the Erasmus program is yet the requirements are quite simple:
1.You must be a resident of a participating country. Find a list of eligible countries to take part in the Erasmus+ Programme here.
2.You will need to have studied for one year in your home institution before applying for Erasmus+. This means first-year college students cannot go on Erasmus+.
3.You must study abroad with a college that has partnered with your university through Erasmus+. You can find out this information from your study abroad office or on the Erasmus+ Programme website.

Additionally, I learned that where you want to study is very important as to the rate of acceptance. Paris is highly sought after so the requirements are higher than for those who go to a small, less popular town like Perugia. This discussion among students applying to or attending Erasmus programs certainly doesn't present it as somehow 'prestigious'.
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2561522

You say "Even Raff himself had an Erasmus exchange in Germany once" as if that is somehow special. It's not.

This "3 month" language course factoid has been disproved numerous times, but as usual, it goes in one ear and out the other. Amanda was NOT doing a 3 month course. She was to study in Perugia for NINE months and then go to Rome to do a creative writing course in Italian.

Then, I found out that that the Univ. of WA hosted a creative writing program in Rome, taught in Italian, it felt like kismet. It combined everything I was looking for. Step one was to master Italian and immerse myself in the culture for nine months in tiny Perugia. Then I'd be ready to take on Rome in June.

(WTBH page 7)

How long will it be before you repeat the lie yet again that it was only a "3 month course"?

No one claimed Erasmus was 'rubbish'; it's just not the high falutin' prestigious and vastly superior program you make it out to be in an attempt to glorify Meredith and trash Amanda.

Unfortunately for you there is only one truth no matter how much you try to dress up falsities in great color.