How do we explain ghosts?

[arthwollipot]

That's possible, too.

I'm more partial to the theory, though, that the ghost was ruthlessly bullied as a child by Rudyard Kipling, and having recently read Marie Condo's "The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing", realizes that all those Kipling books in her space most certainly do not "spark joy" and absolutely must go, so she attempts to enlist the assistance of anyone who comes in the library in their destruction.

 

[kellyb]

For entertainment purposes only
Hang on....why do we need the book at all. Couldn't previous ghost victims simply complain to reception......."By the way there is a female ghost upstairs in the library who is annoyingly pointing at books all night. I want a discount on my room bill"

Maybe that happens sometimes, too.

Also, maybe the ghost was really just recommending her favorite book for the guest to simply read, and was then only pointing at the fire because it was getting low, and she was intending to recommend that the guest put another log on.

 

[AmyW]

If psychics claim to be able to talk to the dead and have mentioned the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Yuipkghg the Ultimate Creator of the Universe, do you believe they exist?



What about Indian (from India) mystics who talk to the dead, and mention Shiva or Kali? Do you believe in the existence of Shiva or Kali?




I can talk to the dead, by the way. I occasionally talk to my mother who has been dead since 1987. She hasn't answered me.

Oh who/what is Kali or Shiva?

 

[arthwollipot]

Oh who/what is Kali or Shiva?

Kali and Shiva are two of the most important deities in Hinduism, humanity's third largest religion, followed by approximately 15%-16% of the global population.

 

[steenkh]

Invisible gnomes and another suggestion of leprechauns are just names being bandied about.

As are ghosts.

The type of phenomena I am referring to is normally called a ghost.

Some people see ghosts, others, like you, hear ghosts. Others feel a coldness, and so on. There is no definition of what a ghost is. Just like for gnomes or leprechauns. You just happen to prefer ghosts, and dismiss every other explanation.

The problem with ghosts is that unlike Big Foot or aliens, a ghost is not going to leave behind physical traces.

Actually, they do: You heard a ghost. Movement of air is a physical trace. Even if you claim that you did not hear a physical sound then you still end up with signals in your brain that are all physical.

There is no evidence for invisible gnomes, as in a dwarfish creature that has the power of invisibility.

That is rich: you believe there is no evidence for invisible gnomes, but there is evidence for invisible ghosts? I would say there is exactly the same evidence.

There is evidence, from credible witnesses reporting circumstances that have no other explanation, of ghosts.

What is a "credible witness" in connection to ghosts? I would say that the witness can be extremely credible as to what they experienced, just as I assume that you really experienced the sound of footsteps that you could not explain. But I do not think there are any credible witnesses who can say they experienced a ghost.

You have not been able to rule out every possible explanation of the sounds that you heard. You have only been able to convince me that you cannot think of any other explanation than ghosts. That is fair enough, but it is not evidence of ghosts.

 

[Axxman300]

So, I'm curious. Are you supposed to visually see a ghost, or are some invisible? Who and why would one decide to be seen, or heard, or to just be there and hang out? Can anyone see/hear them, or do only certain receptive people, or people with a certain power, have the ability?

Some ghosts can (allegedly) be seen while others can't.

As for who can see them I think that comes down to how their brain is wired. Like how some people can play a song by ear, and how some people are great at puzzles.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Yeah, there are a lot of reasons to believe that this particular story is fiction. The clergyman is not named, nor is the time period established, so it is impossible to research. The location is not named. He experiences an "overwhelming urge" which is extremely convenient for the story, but is otherwise unexplained.

Lot of red flags.

Clearly it was the Reverend M. in 18xx.

And now I'm in the mood to read some M.R. James!

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Not necessarily. The clergyman might have been the first person to actually burn the book. Other people might have seen the ghost and not had the "overwhelming urge" to throw the book into the fire. They may have got frightened, dropped the book (which was later replaced by a helpful librarian) and fled the room. They may have felt the "overwhelming urge" but been able to resist it. All of them could later have told other people about their experiences, which is how the hotel staff member - presumably one of many who know the story - heard about it.

The ghost might be a mindless phantasm repeatedly pointing at the space where the target book once was, any book randomly shelved there might end up on the fire.

That's the joy of fiction, no rules.

 

[Steve001]

Because psychics claim to be able to talk to the dead and have mentioned that there is a god

So do clerics every Sunday and yet the existence of God is a matter purely of faith. Why then should the words of psychics be something more than faith?

 

[rockysmith76]

Kali and Shiva are two of the most important deities in Hinduism, humanity's third largest religion, followed by approximately 15%-16% of the global population.

god(dess) of destruction specifically

 

[catsmate]

How do we explain ghosts?

We don't. Like gods, spirits, souls and similar drivel they don't exist and hence don't require explanation.

We explain human belief in ghosts (and related nonsense) by self-delusion, unwillingness to accept painful realities, apophenia, misunderstanding of reality et cetera.

 

[AmyW]

Yes I see, so ghosts (if they existed) doesn't mean it is evidence of an afterlife?

 

[Pope130]

Yes I see, so ghosts (if they existed) doesn't mean it is evidence of an afterlife?

Correct. Without a clear and confirmed description of what a ghost is, proving its' existence would only prove the existence of a phenomenon tagged as "ghost". No proper inference could be drawn from an undefined observation.

 

[xterra]

Yes I see, so ghosts (if they existed) doesn't mean it is evidence of an afterlife?

Correct. "Ghost" could mean any number of things. Here is a non-exhaustive list:

• disembodied dead person
• remnant atomic "memory" of a dead person
• transmitted atomic image of someone who is alive (say, who lives in another city)
• transmitted image from someone else's mind (this of course assumes telepathy, yet another concept for which there is no evidence)
• memory spontaneously surfacing in my brain, and transmuted to appear like something else
• memory spontaneously surfacing in my brain, that I don't consciously remember (a glimpse of an unknown person I saw last year as I was walking down the street, that I didn't consciously notice)
• image that we think is a ghost (Did you look at the rabbit photo I posted several days ago?)

And that's just what occurred to me now.


Which of these necessarily entails an afterlife; and even if any do, which necessarily entail a god; and even if any do, which necessarily entail the Christian god? (Remember FSM and Kali?)

 

[Carlotta]

That is a false analogy. Trying to attribute a criminal act to a ghost is not credible and is nothing like what I am describing.

I went to lots of reports of "intruders" where at the end, we could find nothing and would joke about ghosts.

There was a famous ghost on a road out of one town I worked at, which I saw numerous times. It was a trick of the light, with headlights on a bend in the road causing a moving shadow that really did look like someone ran into the road and then vanished. I took a few phone calls about that, from non locals who did not know about the phenomena.

I and another officer saw a weird green light in the sky during one evening patrol. We could not find an explanation for that.

I was often single manned and checked remote properties when there were concerns of travelling criminals targeting such for housebreakings. I have been to some very creepy places and not had any experiences of anything.

If anything, being in the police opened my mind and means that I accept we cannot explain or evidence everything.

Late to the party (as frequently happens) I've been wondering how a trick of the light can simultaneously be a legitimate ghost. Maybe I missed something.

 

[AmyW]

god(dess) of destruction specifically

Are there mystics/psychics who claim they can talk to Kali? Also are there non psychics who don't believe in a god or do all psychics believe in them?

 

[AmyW]

Correct. "Ghost" could mean any number of things. Here is a non-exhaustive list:

• disembodied dead person
• remnant atomic "memory" of a dead person
• transmitted atomic image of someone who is alive (say, who lives in another city)
• transmitted image from someone else's mind (this of course assumes telepathy, yet another concept for which there is no evidence)
• memory spontaneously surfacing in my brain, and transmuted to appear like something else
• memory spontaneously surfacing in my brain, that I don't consciously remember (a glimpse of an unknown person I saw last year as I was walking down the street, that I didn't consciously notice)
• image that we think is a ghost (Did you look at the rabbit photo I posted several days ago?)

And that's just what occurred to me now.


Which of these necessarily entails an afterlife; and even if any do, which necessarily entail a god; and even if any do, which necessarily entail the Christian god? (Remember FSM and Kali?)

Thank you, awesome! There are also those who claim to see them at night, this could be sleep hallucination right?

 

[xterra]

Thank you, awesome! There are also those who claim to see them at night, this could be sleep hallucination right?

"Could be" leaves an awful lot of room for interpretation, doesn't it?

Could be an energy form that usually lives inside a sun in a minor part of the Large Magellanic Cloud^WP that has inhabited a small part of the sleeper's brain for just a few seconds on its way to metamorphose into a flame inside a fireplace in a small hovel in a slum in Tegucigalpa, Honduras.

Could be an especially realistic dream. (By which I mean that the sleeper was convinced he was awake -- except for the presence of the ghost.)




EDIT. Did you understand the reason that "real" ghosts don't necessarily imply a god?

 

[Nessie]

Many ghost believers state that ghosts appear on film or video recordings. A camera can be a quite useful scientific instrument, in that it records the actual appearance of an object, getting around the perception and memory errors of human observation.

There are vastly more cameras around now than previously, yet numbers of reported photos of ghosts have declined. This is true as well of UFOs, fairies, witches on brooms, angels, Nessie, Ogopogo, Bigfoot, Midlands Melanistic Panthers, and other cryptids. With more observers capable of making recordings, if there is anything observable there, the number of recorded observations should increase.

I am not surprised, since unless someone is filming/photographing at a very specific time or has the presence of mind in what would be shocking situation to start filming or photographing, what are the chances of capturing a ghost on a camera/phone?

 

[Nessie]

You don't know they did, you are relying on what someone else told you.

We are supposed to believe that two police officers saw a lady leaving the scene of a suspected gunshot and they just let her walk off?

make your own mind up.

I think it is clear from what happened why they did not try and grab the female and by the time they did react, she had gone. They literally could not believe their eyes.