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Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread Part 2

Belz...

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Belz...
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Ziggurat said:
I've already explained why it's relevant to voters. These issues tie together in people's minds, even if there isn't a formal logical connection.
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Your claim was about Warren's position on the matter. I'm still waiting for you to support that.

This is a continuation from here
Posted By: kmortis
 
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The Shrike said:
And? Where's the repeated pattern of essays and applications in which she describes the injustices she faced growing up as an American Indian and how her unique heritage can be an asset to such and such an opportunity? Whether literally checking a box or completing a blank, who cares?

Thirty years ago a young woman took some liberties in her paperwork that in hindsight are unseemly –– maybe even sleazy. She evidently derived no benefit from this but she most likely did so at least in part thinking that it might open some doors for her. She has apologized and is working to make amends with the only people who should have taken offense to this: the Cherokee. (Maybe also the Delaware.)

She messed up –– no question. The part that bugs me is folks making the mountain out of this molehill, and providing her no quarter to make amends.

Can we just pause for a second and, on the Grifter Scale, plot this transgression of Warren's relative to, I don't know, the 30-year old closet skeletons that we might be able to find for an average US Senator or –– dare I say –– what Trump might have been up to in the last 30 HOURS?
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Look, I accept her explanations. It's the made-up ones I don't accept. She didn't just tick off a box on a form that implied that you were to list your various ancestry claims. She wrote out "American Indian" in a field for "Race:"

"Hey, we were all into doing that kind of thing back there and I was kinda proud of the Native American strain in my lineage!" I'd be fine with that. Her comment at one point that she thought she'd have better opportunities to get to hang with some N.A. attorneys also works for me.

You were going to a lot of trouble to parse the whole thing in terms of analogies to your own mixed heritage. I'm there... I'm both Jewish and Sicilian - second generation of both. But it has no bearing on this.

I'm a Warren supporter if it comes down to the leading three (Biden, Warren, Sanders) and do not support the fake narrative that she was trying to exploit affirmative action. As crimes go, her little transgression is minor. I don't think we need to embroider the living bejeebus out of it, though.
 
I think Warren's past claims are most problematic because of how race has been made the central issue of what is a vast political divide in this country.

In a vacuum, writing words on a piece of paper hurts no one.

But you can't be the party of "white people are inherently evil and only prosper at the expense of minorities" and then nominate a white lady who (so the argument goes) apparently, explicitly and cynically exploited a system of mandated diversity for her own personal gain. It's appears to be hypocrisy.

Also, this is why distilling every political argument down to "racism" or "sexism" is so dangerous. If the litmus test is always "did this person ever do or say anything that could be construed as racist at any point in history" then most of the people are going to fail that test.

See; Franken, Al.

In other words, if you live by the sword, you should expect to die by it.

PS. Personally, from a policy standpoint, Im almost in lockstep with Warren and I think she would make a fantastic president. But I think she is maybe the worst opponent for Trump because of this issue and the time in which we're living.
 
Ziggurat said:
I'm not sure why you have such confidence. I don't think it's at all warranted.
http://volokh.com/2012/05/04/elizabe...school-hiring/
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Despite the snide tone, he doesn't quote anyone who contradicts this sentence from her Wiki page:

A 2018 Boston Globe investigation found "clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools".[124]
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He is aghast, but finds no actual evidence to support his dismay. Poor fellow.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Despite the snide tone, he doesn't quote anyone who contradicts this sentence from her Wiki page:



He is aghast, but finds no actual evidence to support his dismay. Poor fellow.
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That's a dead link in Zig's quote, probably because you copy-pasted Zigs post rather then quoting it, so you picked up the abbreviated text of the link and not the whole hyperlink.

Was it this one?

http://volokh.com/2012/05/04/elizabeth-warren-and-affirmative-action-in-law-school-hiring/
 
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Pterodactyl said:
PS. Personally, from a policy standpoint, Im almost in lockstep with Warren and I think she would make a fantastic president. But I think she is maybe the worst opponent for Trump because of this issue and the time in which we're living.
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See, I've yet to encounter even one single person who says they won't vote for Warren in the general because of this issue.

Not one.

Just a lot of people predicting that maybe other people won't.
 
kellyb said:
See, I've yet to encounter even one single person who says they won't vote for Warren in the general because of this issue.

Not one.

Just a lot of people predicting that maybe other people won't.
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The question is not who to support in the general, but who to support in the primaries. Who will make the best candidate? I don't think the answer is entirely clear yet.
 
The Ancestry Issue is very much like the Email Server - not anything of substance, but if illuminated the right way, it looks bad.

Most importantly, it is completely irrelevant as a means to judge the qualification for the job of President.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The Ancestry Issue is very much like the Email Server - not anything of substance, but if illuminated the right way, it looks bad.

Most importantly, it is completely irrelevant as a means to judge the qualification for the job of President.
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The misrepresentations happened so long ago that you're probably right. Still, it's an indicator of a weak personality, and her present day handling of the topic hasn't helped.

Whoever faces Trump needs to be able to look into the eye of the beast without blinking. Think Frodo and Sauron.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The Ancestry Issue is very much like the Email Server - not anything of substance, but if illuminated the right way, it looks bad.

Most importantly, it is completely irrelevant as a means to judge the qualification for the job of President.
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I disagree. I find her lack of skepticism about claims made by family members very relevant. I value skepticism as a quality of job performance.

I think it is even worse that she would readily believe something that produces no benefit.
 
Belz... said:
I don't think Sauron could look into Trump's eyes and not blink.
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Trump is a powerful negotiator. He knows how to leverage bargaining assets, create bargaining assets out of nothing, and ask for the order.

If Warren and Trump get on a debate stage, he has her all set up to fall into the Nagging-Mother-In-Law trap. Uggh I'm already picturing it.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
The Ancestry Issue is very much like the Email Server - not anything of substance, but if illuminated the right way, it looks bad.

Most importantly, it is completely irrelevant as a means to judge the qualification for the job of President.
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"Illegal e-mail servers" aren't a boogeyman among the Liberals the way "Cultural appropriation" is.

Again this whole thing is a nothing burger from every possible angle... if we didn't live in a world where the same people keep wanting to talk about white people wearing dreadlocks or teaching belly dancing classes.

The reason I'm such an outlier in most political discussions is because I don't care about gotcha/whataboutism/"how do you like it when the shoe is on the other foot" arguments that make up... well all within a rounding error of our political discourse these days but that's not the same thing as burying my head in the sand and pretending that's not what this is and talk around it.
 
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