Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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BobTheCoward said:
The short answer is because none of those things invalidate the results.
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The referendum was non-binding so the results don’t need invalidating.
BobTheCoward said:
If remain won, there wouldn't have been a second referendum a few years later on remain
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This is clearly wrong. Had remain won Brexiters would ask for another referendum as soon as they could argue something had changed. Since several things have changed In this case wrt the leave vote, there is cause for a new referendum to account for that new information.
BobTheCoward said:
If your goal is to influence
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It’s not. I’m just documenting the flaws in your position. I’m familiar enough with you at this point to know that arguments for or against have no baring on how you arrived at your conclusions so no amount of reasoned argument can influence you conclusion.
 
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lomiller said:
The referendum was non-binding so the results don’t need invalidating.

This is clearly wrong. Had remain won Brexiters would ask for another referendum as soon as they could argue something had changed. Since several things have changed In this case wrt the leave vote, there is cause for a new referendum to account for that new information.

It’s not. I’m just documenting the flaws in your position. I’m familiar enough with you at this point to know that arguments for or against have no baring on how you arrived at your conclusions so no amount of reasoned argument can influence you conclusion.
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There is no new information. Remainers said brexit is bad, and it is bad.
 
Wudang said:
a) we need immigrants to keep the UK economy running

b) the EU allows member states to send immigrants back if they don't earn enough or have enough money amongst other criteria. The UK goverment chose not to use these powers.
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I know that, but I was asking Ian about immigration with regard to the enacting the referendum result, given that immigration was one of the main drivers to getting the result.
 
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1171348055830011904

Parliament has been cancelled for 5 weeks so our @CommonsHomeAffs formal evidence session on No Deal preparations cannot take place. So instead we are meeting informally - still taking public evidence from the Borders Inspectorate & the Freight Transport Assoc at 10am

Because of prorogation there’s no broadcast from this morning’s @CommonsHomeAffs but here’s some things we heard;

Border force already overstretched & no clarity about how many extra staff will be in place by October 31 (NAO says up to 2,000 needed)......

Freight Transport Association still waiting for clarity from Govt on important practical issues on borders & customs for 1 Nov if there’s no deal. Traders & hauliers won’t all be ready.....

Home Secretary’s pledge to end free movement overnight on October 31 has been abandoned as unworkable but not without causing huge anxiety for EU citizens living here in meantime

Government says there will be more criminal checks on EU citizens arriving after October 31 if there’s no deal - but no one can work out how as we won’t have access to the EU criminal databases

Lawyers told us new settled status scheme was “fast track to Windrush problems” as anyone without Temp Leave to Remain or Settled Status by December 2020, even if they’ve lived here years, will be here illegally & could face immigration enforcement by Home Office, employers, NHS

And we heard of families struggling to complete settled status scheme for elderly relatives living here...

Lots of questions on No Deal preparations for us to put to Home Office..... in 5 weeks time. By which time there will be just 3 weeks left.
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lomiller said:
Sending away your ride so you can tell the dealership “If you don’t sell me this car at a loss have to walk 20 miles to get home” a particularly smart negotiating tactic. The only reason to try it is if you already decided to spend the day walking down the freeway hoping not to be run over.
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It needs to be a flying car. After all the UK came up with the idea of the flying car it is the EU who is responsible for all the niggling technical details about how to do it and they constantly seem to harp on demanding some kind of air traffic control for these flying cars.


The people voted for a flying car and so the EU has to deliver it!
 
More "great" Brexit news :rolleyes:

The head of the car group that owns Vauxhall has compared a no-deal Brexit to a head-on train crash.

PSA chief Carlos Tavares also said if a no-deal Brexit had serious consequences for the car group, there would be an ethical responsibility to protect employees outside the UK.

He said the firm would take "necessary decisions" regarding PSA's UK plants.

PSA also said it had halted investment at its UK factories while the outcome of Brexit remains unclear.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49651116

Doubtless Brexiteers will write it off as Project Fear/business doing the EU's dirty work.
 
BobTheCoward said:
There is no new information. Remainers said brexit is bad, and it is bad.
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Leave said there would be a deal before filing for article 50, there was none and is none
Leave said the UK would be part of the EEC, it isn’t
Leave said the UK would be part of the customs union, it isn’t
Leave said there would be no problem keeping the NI border open, it won’t be.
Leave said that a no-deal Brexit was impossible, it is now the plan they are banking on.


People voted leave based on a Brexit that looks nothing like the one being pursued. It’s not democratic to have people vote for one thing, then do something completely different.
 
lomiller said:
Leave said there would be a deal before filing for article 50, there was none and is none
Leave said the UK would be part of the EEC, it isn’t
Leave said the UK would be part of the customs union, it isn’t
Leave said there would be no problem keeping the NI border open, it won’t be.
Leave said that a no-deal Brexit was impossible, it is now the plan they are banking on.


People voted leave based on a Brexit that looks nothing like the one being pursued. It’s not democratic to have people vote for one thing, then do something completely different.
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But remainers were accurate in saying that leave was full of it.
 
For once I agree with Bob. If people choose not to take the time to properly inform themselves about the issues and people they are voting for, and simply swallow the most blatant and transparent of lies simply because they fit with their prejudices, then they have only themselves to blame when they are manipulated into voting against their own interests.
 
Pixel42 said:
For once I agree with Bob. If people choose not to take the time to properly inform themselves about the issues and people they are voting for, and simply swallow the most blatant and transparent of lies simply because they fit with their prejudices, then they have only themselves to blame when they are manipulated into voting against their own interests.
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Not so much of an issue if they were only hurting themselves, but if they're sending the whole country down the drain at the same time then I'm less sanguine.
 
I assure you I am not at all sanguine about the fact that so many people can't be bothered to fulfil their most basic responsibilities as citizens of a democracy. I'm saying I blame them, not the people who take advantage of their wilful ignorance, for the consequences.
 
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