The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

[RoseMontague]

I told you to refer to Curt Knox' speech on some steps shortly after his daughter was charged. It's in the public domain. Nothing obscure or mysterious about it.

I remember he said that hiring a PR firm was ‘one of the smartest things we ever did’. I've never seen any quote or interview where he said they paid 2 million to a PR firm. How about a direct quote and link? Since there's "nothing obscure or mysterious about it".

 

[Stacyhs]

Numbers, in regard to your post about the cat's blood downstairs, etc., there was no motive for the police and/or scientific police to hide or lie about this blood unless you believe they had some nefarious intention. This would have to include outright malicious prosecution of Knox and Sollecito, which I don't believe. I've never believed the police or prosecution knowingly prosecuted two innocent people. Jumped to conclusions too early? Yes. Blinded by their own bias? Yes. Not very good at their jobs? Yes. Screwed up? Yes. Knew Knox and Sollecito were innocent? No.

Looking at the photos of the blood downstairs, they are clearly drops such as would be left by blood dripping straight down or spatter. The photo of the light switch, shows blood spatter, not a smear such as would be left if rubbing against or touching it:



Additionally, there are several drops of blood on the chair cushion and arm and several droplets and smears of blood on the bed as well as the floor. This is consistent of where a cat would walk, jump on, and settle down for a nap. A cat jumping from a chair to the bed or similar would also explain the blue pillowcase being knocked to the floor. What makes less sense is Guede not dripping all this blood in the bathroom upstairs or as he walks down the hallway and out the front door... but then leaving it on the front stairs, on the floor, on the chair, and bed.

As I said earlier, a hematoma on the cat's ear would account for the amount of blood seen downstairs. Hematoma's are rather common on cat's and dog's ears. My cocker spaniel had one and it bled all over everything. Her long ear was soaked in blood.

I won't pretend to understand all the technical DNA information, but I simply do not believe there was a police conspiracy to hide forensic evidence of Guede downstairs in order to 'get' Knox and Sollecito.

 

[Stacyhs]

It is a convention in law that each party is treated equally. This means having the same right to opening speeches, witnesses, cross-examination and closing speeches.

If one party gets to have a two hour closing speech, so should the other party.

In England & Wales and in Italy it seems, the judiciary frowns on any skeleton argument in an appeal that is longer than two sides (at most) preferably one side of double spaced A4-size paper. One counsel who dared to present 15 pages was severely reprimanded.

Yet here we had Bongiorno presenting 340 pages! SHOCKING!!! most of wich had never been presented nor tested/cross-examined at trial.

Still, we know Bruno was once charged with mafia offences (which he was acquitted of).

1. No one cares what is frowned upon in England and Wales. We aren't discussing an English or Welsh case.

2. This wasn't a 'skeleton argument' so your argument is irrelevant.

3. Unless Marasca and Bruno criticized Bongiorno's: 340 pages, you have no grounds to.

4. Still, we know that Mignini was once charged with several counts of abuse of office which he was convicted of (but later was acquitted).

5. There is no record of the prosecution complaining about not being "treated equally" by the Marasca court. All that nonsense comes straight from you...and TJMK.

 

[Stacyhs]

I told you to refer to Curt Knox' speech on some steps shortly after his daughter was charged. It's in the public domain. Nothing obscure or mysterious about it.

It's not our job to going searching through the internet looking for something that YOU asserted.





I bet you can't find it either...which is why you've failed to present it.

 

[Stacyhs]

Once again, you seem to inhabit a fantasy world in which the Massei court verdict and reasoning carries any weight.

News for Vixen: the Massei verdict was expunged. And not only that, it was excoriated by the Marasca SC panel, which (correctly) ruled that it had been incabable of assessing the evidence in accordance with the required law, and had been manifestly unfair.

So perhaps it's time for you to stop relying on what the Massei court decided and wrote about, Vixen. Its "reasoning" is literally worthless. OK?

A merits court cannot be 'expunged' as it presents the facts other courts rely on.

Honestly, Vix...do try and read a bit more slowly and carefully. LJ said the VERDICT was expunged, not the COURT. And he is correct.

 

[Stacyhs]

The court did not dismiss Stefanoni's testimony.

Massei was the idiot who said, despite negative TMB tests and no DNA found, and no comparison to the footprints of the other 3 girls who lived there, the footprint in the hallway had to be Amanda's print made in blood because "what else could it be?" LOL!

The Supreme Court dismissed Stefanoni's nonsense and ripped her a new one over her analysis of the bra and knife.

 

[Stacyhs]

He himself said he was downstairs, standing on a chair in the boys' bathroom to see who was pulling up in the car park outside. Silenzi said he had tidied his room as he always did before departing on his skiing trip, yet when he returned, it was in chaos.

I can find nothing of this in his 2008 deposition or in any of the court documents. Or anywhere else for that matter. I'll take a wild gamble here and ask you for a citation for this claim.

 

[LondonJohn]

I told you to refer to Curt Knox' speech on some steps shortly after his daughter was charged. It's in the public domain. Nothing obscure or mysterious about it.

Nope. This won't do either.

I want the SPECIFIC reference in "Curt Knox's (not Knox') speech on some steps shortly after his daughter was charged", in which he talks SPECIFICALLY about a "$2 million PR campaign".

And if, as you claim above, this alleged reference was made "shortly after his daughter was charged", how on Earth could Curt Knox even have predicted the total spend on PR?

And what happened to your first attempt at sourcing your claim: "David Marriott"? Was that a lie, Vixen?

I'll tell you what I think (well, I know), Vixen: this nebulous reference to a Curt Knox speech as the source of the "$2 million PR campaign" is a lie too. Isn't it? It's a lie. You made it up. There never was any reliable source for this ludicrous dollar figure. You made it up, didn't you Vixen?

Tell the truth. Ten commandments and all that.......

 

[LondonJohn]

A merits court cannot be 'expunged' as it presents the facts other courts rely on.

Ah, so you don't know the difference between a) evidence presented to a court and b) the verdict of a court (and the reasoning underpinning that verdict).

I'm hardly surprised, given your long and illustrious history of abject ignorance of law and criminal justice......

 

[LondonJohn]

The court did not dismiss Stefanoni's testimony.

The only court that mattered in this case dismissed Stefanoni's testimony.

I implore you: read the Marasca verdict MR. Slowly and carefully. Throw the Massei MR in the bin. Which is where it should reside. Kapisch?

 

[LondonJohn]

I remember he said that hiring a PR firm was ‘one of the smartest things we ever did’. I've never seen any quote or interview where he said they paid 2 million to a PR firm. How about a direct quote and link? Since there's "nothing obscure or mysterious about it".

There won't be a direct quote and/or link. Because Vixen's claim is a lie.

 

[LondonJohn]

It's not our job to going searching through the internet looking for something that YOU asserted.



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695d74b89e6c585.jpg[/qimg]

I bet you can't find it either...which is why you've failed to present it.

Of course Vixen can't find it. Because it doesn't exist. Because Vixen's claim is a lie

 

[Vixen]

In this case there were the authorities, then lawyers for the civil parties including the Kerchers, Patrick, & apartment owner that got to take part in this mess, giving them much more of a presence than the defense.

Be as it may be, (and in any case there were five parties iirc, incl. Raff and Knox as two of them) you are not supposed to present evidence or argue the facts at an appeal. An appeal is strictly for points of law only.

Peter Gill's report based on the legally heavily criticised Conti & Vecchiotti report, which was dismissed by the Supreme Court should never have been allowed. This is because:

• The Supreme Court does not assess evidence or the facts
• The proper place for Gill's pontification was the merits court (the trial proper)
• Gill was never cross-examined
• His report was never heard in an open court
• Gill resurrected Conti & Vecchiotti whose report had already been judged and dismissed by the Supreme Court
• Gill had no first hand knowledege of the trial nor access to the investigation, nor was he ever called as a witness.

It matters not whether there are two parties or six, they each get to have equal representation. The owner of the property simply came along to claim the value of her house had dropped as a result of the crime, so barely took up ten minutes, anyway.

 

[Vixen]

I remember he said that hiring a PR firm was ‘one of the smartest things we ever did’. I've never seen any quote or interview where he said they paid 2 million to a PR firm. How about a direct quote and link? Since there's "nothing obscure or mysterious about it".

Didn't BiWi already give you the quote from Dr Mignini, who has first hand knowledge of these things and as evidenced by Knox cheekily putting in a claim of >€2m for her parents in her ECHR application?

 

[TomG]

Additionally, there are several drops of blood on the chair cushion and arm and several droplets and smears of blood on the bed as well as the floor. This is consistent of where a cat would walk, jump on, and settle down for a nap. A cat jumping from a chair to the bed or similar would also explain the blue pillowcase being knocked to the floor. What makes less sense is Guede not dripping all this blood in the bathroom upstairs or as he walks down the hallway and out the front door... but then leaving it on the front stairs, on the floor, on the chair, and bed.

The wiki article quotes Stefano Bonassi as saying that he didn't "know how to explain the traces of blood on my duvet given that my door was locked with a key as well as the window." and indicates that "Item No. 28 is a lightswitch on the wall of the downstairs apartment. The lightswitch samples are the only blood samples from inside of the downstairs apartment that are not identified as cat’s blood." If the blood on the switch wasn't cat-blood what was it? Now we are stuck with a cat that can apparently open locked doors? We also have dripped diluted traces on the steps on way down to the downstairs flat, two of which were confirmed as blood. I agree that the cat may have been bleeding; however, there is no significant pooling of blood as there would be if a cat was settling or sleeping as you suggest, instead there are sporadic blood drops indicating that the source was in motion. There's no doubt in my mind that Rudy was downstairs at some point, if only briefly.

Hoots

 

[Vixen]

Massei was the idiot who said, despite negative TMB tests and no DNA found, and no comparison to the footprints of the other 3 girls who lived there, the footprint in the hallway had to be Amanda's print made in blood because "what else could it be?" LOL!

The Supreme Court dismissed Stefanoni's nonsense and ripped her a new one over her analysis of the bra and knife.

Stefanoni a biologist knows more about TMB v Luminol than you do. Luminol is the number one crime tool of choice in the USA for unveiling invisible blood.

It is several thousand times more sensitive than TMB.

 

[Vixen]

The wiki article quotes Stefano Bonassi as saying that he didn't "know how to explain the traces of blood on my duvet given that my door was locked with a key as well as the window." and indicates that "Item No. 28 is a lightswitch on the wall of the downstairs apartment. The lightswitch samples are the only blood samples from inside of the downstairs apartment that are not identified as cat’s blood." If the blood on the switch wasn't cat-blood what was it? Now we are stuck with a cat that can apparently open locked doors? We also have dripped diluted traces on the steps on way down to the downstairs flat, two of which were confirmed as blood. I agree that the cat may have been bleeding; however, there is no significant pooling of blood as there would be if a cat was settling or sleeping as you suggest, instead there are sporadic blood drops indicating that the source was in motion. There's no doubt in my mind that Rudy was downstairs at some point, if only briefly.

Hoots

...Or Raff and Amanda, bearing in mind Amanda knew where Mez got the key from, which was hanging inside the front door. As you may recall, Mez was tasked with feeding the cat and watering the plants whilst the boys were away.

If anyone had the key to downstairs, it was KNox, not Rudy. He had only visited on three known occasions, mainly to watch sporting events on TV: Rugby World Cup and Formula 1 racing. I doubt the boys would have given him a key.

 

[LondonJohn]

Didn't BiWi already give you the quote from Dr Mignini, who has first hand knowledge of these things and as evidenced by Knox cheekily putting in a claim of >€2m for her parents in her ECHR application?

Sorry? Now you're claiming that MIGNINI is the reliable source for this claim?! And that Mignini "has first hand knowledge" of the cost of any PR services the Knox family might or might not have used??!

IT'S A LIE, VIXEN. You told a lie - firstly about the "fact" itself, and then about your so-called "evidence" underpinning the lie. Admit it. Then we can move on.

 

[LondonJohn]

Stefanoni a biologist knows more about TMB v Luminol than you do. Luminol is the number one crime tool of choice in the USA for unveiling invisible blood.

It is several thousand times more sensitive than TMB.

Oh boy. You know nothing about this subject either. Quelle surprise.

 

[LondonJohn]

And for the n'th time, the figure given by Knox's lawyers in her ECHR application was for outgoings related to her defence, Vixen. Which consisted of years and years of expensive legal representation, plus expert witness costs, plus significant costs of travel (across nine time zones), accommodation and subsistence for family members over the four years that Knox was imprisoned or on trial in Italy.

Not for PR costs.

Sheesh.