Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

[Andy_Ross]

This is a cultural difference between Brits (and their American offspring) and run of the mill Europeans. Most of us have proper kitchens that are intended to be used most days of the week. Some people have a narrow array of cooking skills and will only prepare 3-4 different meals and rotate them through the week, some will make something different every day, but the ready meals are limited to an occasional ... what's the opposite of a treat? Punishment? Their use is dictated by convenience of a specific day, travel arrangements and the like.

The last option you mention is false. Dietary regimens are rarely friendly to ready meals. You can obtain ready meals suitable for some common dietary conditions, but your choices will be sharply limited.

McHrozni

Marks & Spencer cook. far better food than I can.

 

[The Don]

You would be wrong. The scandinavian/nordic countries - who apart from Norway are all in the EU - have the highest number of people living alone (>50% iirc). In these countries it is normal for people to leave home at 18 and live by themselves.

So your explanation, 'they are more likely to eat together as a family' doesn't quite explain it, although they do like their family food traditions, especially at Christmas. But then so do the Brits.

That's not what I'm talking about, people leaving home at 18, what I'm talking about is parents and dependent children living under the same roof but living separate culinary lives.

 

[Andy_Ross]

That still doesn't explain the popularity in the UK as compared to the EU.

These programmes are all about saving money but it should be about more than that. It should be about teaching people how to have gourmet taste. The French know this. The Italians know this. Italy used to be the poor man of Europe but it always knew how to cook.

Cooking and appreciating food was taken out of schools decades ago in the UK.

 

[Lothian]

Marks & Spencer cook. far better food than I can.

M&S need your help to get hot tasty food on a plate. You can do that without their help.

 

[The Don]

M&S need your help to get hot tasty food on a plate. You can do that without their help.

True, but look at what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast:
- Two slices of toast from bread we did not make
- Low fat spread that we did not make
- Marmite that we did not make

Lunch:
Salad comprising:
- Ham that we did not cure ourselves
- Lettuce, tomato, cucumber
- Pepper antipasto *, mushroom antipasto that we did not make ourselves
- Olive oil *, balsamic vinegar *, garlic and oregano none of which we made ourselves

Dinner
- Grilled salmon steaks *
- Green beans *
- Sweet chilli sauce we did not make ourselves
- Some kind of mixed grains in a bag which we did not make ourselves

I suppose we could have done some lentils instead of the bagged mixed grains but realistically we're not going to be less dependent on industrial food than that without spending an awful lot of time making bread, our own butter, jam (which we do but with bought-in sugar), oil, vinegar and so on.

I've also asterisked the things which came from the EU

 

[Vixen]

I wonder if it's related to the fact that UK has the longest working hours in the EU? The perception of having no time between getting home and the kids needing food? The belief that it takes a long time to cook a meal even though so many watch programmes like Jamie's 15 minute meals? There's an old joke that the typical UK person eats a microwaved sherpherd's pie while watching Masterchef.

There is a disjoint and I'm not sure it can be pinned down to one factor. I suspect it's a combination : people work longer hours so are a but more likely to get a ready meal. This creates a slightly bigger market and supermarkets are always looking for the next niche to expand into so produce more ready meals. People see more ready meals so are more likely to get them. Competition between supermarkets for that market increases quality for price in one part of the market and more bargain basement options.

It's an erroneous perception that 'ready meals' are faster. Most microwave ovens have space for only one ready meal at a time. So, if there are two of you and you need to microwave something for five minutes each, including stirring it half way, punching holes in the cellophane and pulling it off, it's actually no quicker than slinging stuff into a frying pan on medium heat.

Ocean Pie makes me laugh. You have to microwave it for 20 minutes or oven cook for 45 minutes. Potatoes boil and are ready in another 20 - 30 minutes, fish fried in twelve or less.

Frozen Macaroni Cheese: oven cook 45 minutes. Make your own at a fraction of the price: boil some water with salt, throw in handful of macroni pasta. In the meantime stir in some milk, soft cheese, such as Philadelphia, and grated cheddar in a frying pan. Ready in 10 minutes or less.

 

[Worm]

Useful summary from Prof. Mark Elliott (Professor of Public Law, University of Cambridge) regarding the 'Benn' bill to block a no deal Brexit:

https://twitter.com/ProfMarkElliott/status/1169153056426070018

Many journalists have repeatedly indicated that the Bill will take no deal "off the table", or that it will "legally block" no deal. But that isn't right

As currently drafted, the Bill requires the Prime Minister to request a three-month Article 50 extension from the European Council.

But unless the Council unanimously agrees to extend Article 50, the 31 Oct deadline remains, and the UK exits on that date, deal or no deal.

 

[Nessie]

.. The scandinavian/nordic countries...

Hopefully Scotland will become a member of that group.

 

[Wudang]

Interesting reading London Playbook today link

When was the last time any major political party threw out more than 20 of its MPs for disobeying orders? Worryingly for Downing Street, even slavishly loyal Brexiteers were unnerved. “It’s like something out of North Korea,” one normally supportive No. 10 aide phoned Playbook to say. “I honestly think they’ve completely overreached. They have f***ed this up. We look bonkers. You’re trying to frame it as parliament vs. the people — and then you deselect 20-odd of your own MPs, including Winston Churchill’s grandson? I mean — deselecting Philip Hammond is one thing, but Richard bloody Benyon? Imagine what we’d be saying if Corbyn did something like this.”

 

[Vixen]

That's not what I'm talking about, people leaving home at 18, what I'm talking about is parents and dependent children living under the same roof but living separate culinary lives.

My son went vegan and it was no problem substituting tofu or similar for meat/fish and still using the same basic ingredients to cook.

I'll confess I did buy one or two vegan ready meals for him now and then. Even more expensive than normal ready meals

 

[The Don]

Ocean Pie makes me laugh. You have to microwave it for 20 minutes or oven cook for 45 minutes. Potatoes boil and are ready in another 20 - 30 minutes, fish fried in twelve or less.

True but then again you need to peel and prepare the potatoes, hardly onerous but it adds to the time. Once boiled you need to mash the potatoes, again not a difficult or time consuming task but again adding to the overall time.

You also need to make a bechamel sauce, again hardly an onerous thing but it adds to the overall time.

You also need to assemble said pie and bake it in the oven. All of the preparation requires active participation as opposed to just sticking a ready-made pie in the oven.

Looking at the washing up from a made from scratch ocean pie you have:

• Potato pan
• Frying pan for the fish (though I would poach them in milk and use the milk to make the bechamel)
• Bechamel pan
• Dish you baked the pie in
• Whatever you made the accompanying veg in

Again, doing the washing up for this list isn't difficult and will add a few minutes to your day but its more difficult than just recycling whatever container(s) the ready meal came in.

Then of course you needed to have all the ingredients bought and to hand.

Cooking from scratch is rewarding but it requires a lot more work and creates a lot more mess. Making a ragu lasagne properly takes all day and that's great if you have the time and even better if you can, like on the telly, involve the children and teach them to cook in the process. Real life often isn't like that and sticking a ready-made lasagne in the oven for 20-30 minutes while you get on with the ironing (or some other household task) may be more practical for a busy family.

 

[McHrozni]

Useful summary from Prof. Mark Elliott (Professor of Public Law, University of Cambridge) regarding the 'Benn' bill to block a no deal Brexit:

https://twitter.com/ProfMarkElliott/status/1169153056426070018

It blocks the stalling tactic of BJ as means to achieve the legal default. Should the bill become law, he will be forced to go to the EU and ask for another extension.

I apologize for repeating myself, but I think the EU will tell him sure, but Parliament must okay a second referendum if you want that. Under those conditions Parliament will vote for one.

Then they'll fight to death over what options to include. Because that's the real kick in the balls this particular case.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Cooking from scratch is rewarding but it requires a lot more work and creates a lot more mess. Making a ragu lasagne properly takes all day and that's great if you have the time and even better if you can, like on the telly, involve the children and teach them to cook in the process. Real life often isn't like that and sticking a ready-made lasagne in the oven for 20-30 minutes while you get on with the ironing (or some other household task) may be more practical for a busy family.

You can make your own ready lasagna and freeze it yourself too. It works and is usually much better than store brought variety. It's a matter of personal prefference and comittment, I think.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

My son went vegan and it was no problem substituting tofu or similar for meat/fish and still using the same basic ingredients to cook.

Well now you're cooking two meals, now scale that to four or five different meals to accommodate each family member's food preferences and then factor in that each family member is eating at a different time because of their schedule.

 

[McHrozni]

Well now you're cooking two meals, now scale that to four or five different meals to accommodate each family member's food preferences and then factor in that each family member is eating at a different time because of their schedule.

No, that's one meal. At worst you might have to prepare tofu first, cook it, remove it and then throw in the fish or whatever, to avoid contamination.

Even that is only necessary if he's the obnoxious kind of vegan, in which case I recommend disowning anyway.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

You can make your own ready lasagna and freeze it yourself too. It works and is usually much better than store brought variety. It's a matter of personal prefference and comittment, I think.

McHrozni

Yes it is a matter of commitment, planning and so on.

Do you have the time to spend all Saturday or Sunday in the kitchen each week preparing a variety of meals for the family to enjoy over the next week ? (assuming that you have the resources and skills to do so) Some people do make the time to do that. Others do not.

Mrs Don and I are a couple who mostly work from home. We have the time to do exactly what you suggest but it's easier for us because we almost always eat the same thing at the same time.

 

[Vixen]

True, but look at what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast:
- Two slices of toast from bread we did not make
- Low fat spread that we did not make
- Marmite that we did not make

Lunch:
Salad comprising:
- Ham that we did not cure ourselves
- Lettuce, tomato, cucumber
- Pepper antipasto *, mushroom antipasto that we did not make ourselves
- Olive oil *, balsamic vinegar *, garlic and oregano none of which we made ourselves

Dinner
- Grilled salmon steaks *
- Green beans *
- Sweet chilli sauce we did not make ourselves
- Some kind of mixed grains in a bag which we did not make ourselves

I suppose we could have done some lentils instead of the bagged mixed grains but realistically we're not going to be less dependent on industrial food than that without spending an awful lot of time making bread, our own butter, jam (which we do but with bought-in sugar), oil, vinegar and so on.

I've also asterisked the things which came from the EU

Yesterday I had:

One mandarin orange (obviously not home grown)
a round piece of rye bread (home grown in Finalnd) with Oltermanni cheese slice (domestic cheese) and a slice of 'farmhouse' ham (Finnish reared).

Lunch: an Atera ready meal called 'Carribbean Chicken and Rice' (this also had green beans) [made in Finland]

Tea: Cheese soup ready meal (with emmenatal cheese bits of carrot and whatnot [made in Finland]

Evening meal: skipped. Chunks of Fazer chocolate with salmiakki and Cheesy wotsit style snacks (both Finnish produce) whilst waiting for the House of Commons to get on with their debate and vote.

The reason for the ready meals and the snacks is that I haven't yet read the manual on how to use my new oven. The new microwave oven arrived so I had to christen it accordingly.

Reading the Finnair flight magazine, Blue Wings, it had a table of exports and imports between Finland and the UK in relation to Brexit. This was interesting reading. Manufactured goods were higher from Finland to the UK than the other way round (this will be due mainly to timber and paper and high technology), whereas 'Services' was vice versa, with the UK importing more into Finland than it to the UK.

 

[McHrozni]

Yes it is a matter of commitment, planning and so on.

Do you have the time to spend all Saturday or Sunday in the kitchen each week preparing a variety of meals for the family to enjoy over the next week ? (assuming that you have the resources and skills to do so) Some people do make the time to do that. Others do not.

I find it unlikely there's need to do so for every day of the week. How hectic are the schedules you're talking about anyway?

McHrozni

 

[Vixen]

Hopefully Scotland will become a member of that group.

Definitely. I note the Shetland islands are almost as far north as me.

Shetland
Location
Coordinates 60°21′N 1°13′WCoordinates: 60°21′N 1°13′W

 

[The Don]

It blocks the stalling tactic of BJ as means to achieve the legal default. Should the bill become law, he will be forced to go to the EU and ask for another extension.

I apologize for repeating myself, but I think the EU will tell him sure, but Parliament must okay a second referendum if you want that. Under those conditions Parliament will vote for one.

Then they'll fight to death over what options to include. Because that's the real kick in the balls this particular case.

McHrozni

Is Boris Johnson obliged to go to Brussels to ask for an extension in a way that it might be granted ? Could he instead wrap the request in preconditions which will make it impossible for the EU to accept ? For example "The UK parliament has forced me to ask for an extension but you must also remove the backstop".

Could he also reject the extension out of hand ? If, for example the EU insists on a second referendum, could Boris Johnson reject it out of hand without referring the terms to Parliament because although Parliament has requested an extension, it hasn't necessarily agreed to any and all preconditions for that extension ?