ozeco41
Philosopher
Well said. Again. Maybe it will attract support if you say it.
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18th Anniversary: No Truth events planned?
- Thread starter Oystein
- Start date
Fonebone
persona non grata
update
Update---
(LINK redacted due to national security concerns)
Update --- a leaked video of chef WTC7 surveillance tape secretly recorded the suspect juggler
minutes he switched to butcher knives...
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/9ncqam/a_different_kind_of_baller/
Update---
Update --- a leaked video of chef WTC7 surveillance tape secretly recorded the suspect juggler
minutes he switched to butcher knives...
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/9ncqam/a_different_kind_of_baller/
Skeletor
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2011
- Messages
- 301
Every year around this time, it seems I get into arguments with conspiracy theorists that bring up AE911Truth, and how it just seems to devolve into a discussion about WTC7. Did the two large aircraft that struck the two huge buildings not have anything to do with it? The conspiracy theories just make no sense logically, and otherwise intelligent people are deluded by this nonsense!
9/11 truth is the only false narrative on 9/11 issues. Dumbed down claims where steel can't fail in fire. The fact is fire caused the collapse, the effects of fire. Fire causes steel to expand, and when it cools it contracts. Reality based engineers disagree on how WTC 7 failure began, but all agree it was due to damage and fire caused on 9/11 - the result of terrorism.
The fact is you have no evidence to support your claims. You never will. 18 years of 9/11 truth failure, why can't you present evidence.
In your fantasy world of wild speculation, who did it? You have no clue, you offer truther talk, unable to afford an engineering report to support your fantasy world of woo.
Gage had the money to fund a report with a fake conclusion. Saying you can't get the building to fail due to fire, means they failed to model fire and steel.
You could have had a PhD in engineering by now. 9/11 truth failed. Do you believe in the thermite lie too? lol
ozeco41
Philosopher
The de-facto reason for the focus on WTC7 is simple IMNSHO. It is harder for debunkers to prove no CD at WTC7.
Early debates had focussed on claims for CD at the Twin Towers. All such claims effectively rebutted - essentially because there is sufficient evidence in view to support explanation of the collapses and why CD help was not required. BUT the "tradition" has developed that "debunkers" accepted "Reversed Burden of DISproof". No truther seemed to be intelligent or competent enough to prove truther claims. So debunkers brought intelligence/competence into play and rebutted the claims giving counter explanations. So be it - that had become situation normal and still is the norm. And the truth movement had effectively lost the battle for CD at the Twin Towers.
THEN
Along came NIST's WTC7 report. The gross picture still looks a bit like CD but most of the detailed evidence was hidden inside the building. A gift from the gods for truthers - effectively led by AE911. So they shifted focus to WTC7 where the evidence is hidden and it is a lot harder for debunkers to DISprove.
Everyone forgetting that the actual burden of proof is with those claiming CD. And the truther reliance on "Reversed Burden" is itself a confession that they cannot prove their claims.
So that is the "big picture" as I see it.
Skeletor
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2011
- Messages
- 301
Well summarized indeed. It was difficult for me to grasp what exactly had happened with WTC7 until I signed up for this forum, because the image of the building collapsing didn't tell the whole story.
Interesting to note that in the more than 10 years that AE911T has been around they still haven't put together a coherent reasonably detailed how these buildings were taken down with placed devices. They haven't even settled on where they were likely placed... what type they were which did not produce explosive sounds nor powerful mass ejections (multiple???). Their entire meme is that the buildings were too strong to collapse and fire can't lead to the collapse of a high rise. They build a case based on the true notion that media will spin, make errors and appears to be owned by powerful interests who push a pro war agenda.
A few attempts at what looks like technical work... Szamoboti, Harrit, and a few others have surfaced and presented flawed work proving nothing!
In the end AE911T is the center of what amounts to a cult or true believers with little to no technical background... immune to logic and reasoning.
A few attempts at what looks like technical work... Szamoboti, Harrit, and a few others have surfaced and presented flawed work proving nothing!
In the end AE911T is the center of what amounts to a cult or true believers with little to no technical background... immune to logic and reasoning.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 18,948
Also, most seem to either not tackle, or tackle as separately as possible, the other two plane crashes. So many supporters of AE911Truth accept as natural that the technical geniuses around Gage, including Gage himself, cannot figure out and speak out loud what happened, in their mind, at the Pentagon and in Shanksville.
There is of course a bitter battle raging withing Trutherdom, and it has been a strategically smart decision by Gage not disagree with either side, so as to keep the money flowing from them all.
Oh - nice signature, by the way
bknight
Master Poster
Skeletor
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2011
- Messages
- 301
I realized when I had submitted my reply how relevant your quote still is!Also, most seem to either not tackle, or tackle as separately as possible, the other two plane crashes. So many supporters of AE911Truth accept as natural that the technical geniuses around Gage, including Gage himself, cannot figure out and speak out loud what happened, in their mind, at the Pentagon and in Shanksville.
There is of course a bitter battle raging withing Trutherdom, and it has been a strategically smart decision by Gage not disagree with either side, so as to keep the money flowing from them all.
Oh - nice signature, by the way
Nearly 18 years on, I'd imagine there are kids, who have grown up with Truther parents, that have been exposed to only the AE911Truth/Loose Change conspiracy theories and haven't been encouraged to question any of them.
Fonebone
persona non grata
Originally Posted by Oystein 
Hi Fonebone! I am German, did you know? Yes, some Germans (look at me!) have done investigative work and discovered that Steven Jones and Niels Harrit are frauds, and that AE911Truth is a dying organization
[FONT="]Hi Oystein! Yes , I was fully informed by you of your nationality when discussed another German citizen Truth-seeker Andreas von Bülow
If I remember correctly you promptly smeared Mr. von Bülow with the anti-semitic **** bomb before labeling him as a pariah and embarrassment to the German people.
This is a link to Andreas von Bülow's own words on the 9-11 attacks:...
[/FONT][FONT="] https://www.voltairenet.org/article133896.html
[/FONT]
Hi Fonebone! I am German, did you know? Yes, some Germans (look at me!) have done investigative work and discovered that Steven Jones and Niels Harrit are frauds, and that AE911Truth is a dying organization
[FONT="]Hi Oystein! Yes , I was fully informed by you of your nationality when discussed another German citizen Truth-seeker Andreas von Bülow
If I remember correctly you promptly smeared Mr. von Bülow with the anti-semitic **** bomb before labeling him as a pariah and embarrassment to the German people.
This is a link to Andreas von Bülow's own words on the 9-11 attacks:...
[/FONT][FONT="] https://www.voltairenet.org/article133896.html
[/FONT]
Edited by kmortis:
Do not mask vulgar language. Let the Autocensor do its job.
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
I will be at the candlelight service in Tewksbury MA as usual to pay respect to my lost friends. Personally, I don't give a damn what "truthers" think........
ozeco41
Philosopher
Actually the second line of DGM's sig is better.Such modesty.snip.
Oh - nice signature, by the way
bknight
Master Poster
Shameless plug
Well it is the 18th anniversary here and I don't see a lot of truther quotes, just some memorials for those who died.
Eighteen years ago thousands of people including many Americans were killed in what is now the is the biggest and most destructive terrorist attack on American soil.
And what is the question that is asked?
“So please, all, help:
What is going to happen on 9/11 this year(with the Truther)? Nothing? They seem to be not even trying.”
This displays a very bizarre and strange obsession called “Truther derangement syndrome”, instead of asking the real questions about 9/11. The real question is, why did the US government deliberately allow these horrific al Qaeda terrorist attacks to take place? Why did the US government allow these terrorists to murder so many people in the US?
When you see images of the attacks taking place on this anniversary and know all of the people who were killed, it makes you just completely sick knowing there was no real reason why the US government should have allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out this horrific attack. The US government had way more than enough information to have prevented this attack.
What we know today is the following, information that has finally come out, only many years after these attacks.
The CIA knew from a NSA cable, that al Qaeda terrorists Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were going to an important al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur, in January 2000, and even knew that this meeting was planning terrorist attacks on American interests. Other terrorists at this meeting were Walid bin Attash, later identified as a the mastermind of the Cole bombing, Hambali, the famous Indonesian terrorist, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the terrorist who had been involved in the Bojinka plot, and had already a $2,000,000 FBI reward on his head. Incredibly, the CIA let all of these terrorists walk away without arresting anyone, even though many of these terrorists were connected to the east African embassy bombings.
And, incredibly this information went to FBI Director Louis Freeh , FBI high level manager Dale Watson and acting FBI Director Tom Pickard.
On March 5, 2000, the CIA was informed that two al Qaeda terrorists had entered the US, Nawaf al-Hazmi, and another unidentified terrorist, and they decided to keep this information completely secret, even from the FBI. All they had to do was look at the flight manifest for the flight Hazmi took to the US from Bangkok to find Mihdhar on this same flight.
On July 10, 2001, the information that a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was likely aimed at the US, was given by CIA Director George Tenet, CTC Director Cofer Black and Bin Laden Station chief Richard Blee, to Condoleezza Rice, John Hadley and Ricard Clarke at the White House. This same information was given to John Ashcroft and Donald Rumsfeld on July 17 2001.
On July 13, 2001 and July 23, 2001, when the spy the CIA had moved over into the FBI, Tom Wilshere, to find out did the FBI Cole bombing criminal investigators know that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing, had second thoughts about his role as spy inside of the FBI, and wanted to pass the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI Cole bombing investigators. The CIA managers, not only refused to give him permission to do this, but refused to even reply to his requests, so they would have “plausible deniability”.
On August 6, 2001, the president is given a briefing paper that is titled, “Bin Laden determined to carry out a terrorist attacks inside of the US”, and the information from that paper that indicated this attack might be aircraft hijackings aimed at buildings in Manhattan.
On August 21, 2001 Wilshere is told Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US in order to take part in this massive al Qaeda terrorists attacks, and this information was sent to the people working for Wilshere FBI HQ agent Dana Corsi and rest of the CIA on the next day on August 22, 2001.
On August 23, 2001, George Tenet finds out that an Islamic extremist who was trying to learn how to fly a B747 without even having a pilot’s license, had been arrested by the INS at the request of Minneapolis FBI, and these agents had asked the CIA for help to get information so they would have probable cause to search Moussaoui’s possessions. Tenet and the CIA refused to provide any help at all to the Minneapolis FBI agents, even when they knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack about to take place was aimed right at the US that would likely involve hijacked aircraft.
On August 28, 2001, when FBI criminal agent Steve Bongardt, got FBI HQ’s agent Dina Corsi’s EC to start an investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi, he called her so he could take part in this investigation in order to find these al Qaeda terrorists before they had time to carry out an al Qaeda terrorist attacks inside of the US. In spite of having already been approved to give the NSA information in her EC to Bongardt and his team, she and her supervisor Rod Middleton, tells Bongardt that she does not have this permission and therefore he has to shut down his investigation. We now know that Corsi and Middleton were working under the direct supervision of Tom Wilshere, and all knew by shutting down Bongardt’s investigation, would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out a horrific terrorist attack inside of the US.
The CIA was aware of Mihdhar and Hazmi, 21 months before the attacks on 9/11, knew they had visas for the US and even knew they were inside of the US, three weeks ahead of the 9/11 attack, in order to take part in this horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack and then let then get on commercial aircraft, and pay for 10 tickets used by al Qaeda terrorists on 9/11. This is not just simply stupid, this is way, way, way, beyond stupid.
The people on this form have defended the CIA and FBI, using every completely absurd, stupid, moronic, and asinine excuse in this defense; the CIA just did not share information with the FBI, these agencies were just arrogant, the people at these agencies were just too stupid, the people at the CIA and FBI were just completely incompetent. They would even have you believe that the CIA should be called the CSA, the Central Stupid Agency, or perhaps even the CSSA, the Central Super Stupid Agency.
But not one of these excuses make the slightest bit of sense in the light of the facts that have come out since these attacks took place, evidence that shows that the attacks were allowed to happen because of deliberate actions by the CIA and by FBI agents that had been corrupted by the CIA.
Again, when you see images of these attacks taking place on this anniversary and know all of the people who were killed, it makes you just completely sick knowing there was no reasonable reason why the US government should have allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out this horrific attack.
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Yes, and you had prior knowledge and failed to stop it. Why did you fail to stop Flight 11, 175, 77, and 93?
OOPS, who failed to tell the Flight 93 Passengers to let it happen? The fact is hijackings before 9/11 were allowed to happen, in a sense: for example DB Cooper, did the FBI see that one coming too?
Better sue the authors of books using some of your stuff, see Amazon.
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dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
Waiting to see what the Truthers find to yell about in the new History Channel documentary "9/11:Inside Air Force One".
I did not find anything at all they could use,but I am sure they will find something....
I did not find anything at all they could use,but I am sure they will find something....
The FBI told me, that, I did not have the flight numbers of the planes that were going to be hijacked or the names of the terrorists who were going to take part in this attack. The FBI agent who interviewed me "under oath", told me that without this specific information, they would have done nothing with my information, that I did not have the specific information that they could have used to stop this attack.
And further they said that the very first question they would have asked me was "what information did I have that was not based on speculation", and I would have said, I had no information at all that was not based on speculation. It was clear, that the FBI does not start any criminal investigation based on speculation.
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Better sue the authors of books using some of your stuff, see Amazon.
I actually gave several authors the material in my book, so they could use this material in their books. These books are "Disconnecting the Dots", by Kevin Fenton and The Eleventh Day", by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan, who used material I sent to them along the material Kevin had in his book that came from my book. I never had any intention to sue anyone who used material from my book, In fact, I welcomed it.
Axxman300
Philosopher
You ignore so many facts to be taken seriously.
It wasn't "The CIA", it was Alec Station which withheld information. It wasn't "The FBI" it was the FBI's bin Laden Group run out of the NYC office which was both co-opted by Alec Station and sat on its own intel. For some reason the fact that neither Alec Station nor the NYC bin Laden Group were not integrated with their respective Counter-Terrorism desks doesn't throw up any red flags for you. CIA officers often do not share intel outside of their groups. On 9-11 the CIA balked at giving White House NSC all of their information even though the attacks were in progress, and had to have their arms twisted.
We get it, you hate the CIA. Whatever, but it's just another government agency. Somehow the Clinton Administration's NSC gets a pass even though they sat on Al Qaeda for a number of years and Sandy Berger stole documents from the National Archives relating to Al Qaeda, and destroyed them. Why is it that with 9-11 Truther types the claim where there's smoke there's fire except where there is actual smoke and flames?