Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

[ceptimus]

I think most of us have been pretty adamant that we want to scrap the biggest mistake a country has made for a long time, possibly ever.

Then again, there is a sort of morbid fascination in watching a nation destroy itself.

I know the vast majority of posters on here are adamant remainers. Providing you openly admit it, it's a reasonable position to take.

I should have said "moaning remainer MPs". Those are whom I was referring to when I said they SAY they "want to stop a no-deal Brexit" when what (most) of them should say, if they were honest, is that they "want to stop Brexit entirely."

 

[The Don]

Quite a police presence for a couple of thousand teachers, retired teachers and their children.

 

[Darat]

I know the vast majority of posters on here are adamant remainers. Providing you openly admit it, it's a reasonable position to take.

I should have said "moaning remainer MPs". Those are whom I was referring to when I said they SAY they "want to stop a no-deal Brexit" when what (most) of them should say, if they were honest, is that they "want to stop Brexit entirely."

No. Many do want to remain but have accepted that we are leaving, therefore they want to leave with as little damage to the UK as possible.

And remember it is mainly the Brexiters that stopped us leaving in March and have repeatedly voted to not leave.

 

[ceptimus]

No. Many do want to remain but have accepted that we are leaving, therefore they want to leave with as little damage to the UK as possible.

And remember it is mainly the Brexiters that stopped us leaving in March and have repeatedly voted to not leave.

This last part is a repeated lie.

It's actually mainly the opposition: Labour, Liberal, SNP, Green, Plaid, that prevented us leaving in March. Providing the opposition, plus the DUP, voted against May's deal, it made no difference if the entire Tory party, including Brexiter European Research Group, voted for the deal - it would still never have passed.

So it's completely wrong to say it was "mainly Brexiters that stopped us leaving in March": If all the Brexiters had voted in favour of May's deal, that would have made no difference whatsoever.

 

[Mojo]

I think the point is that

- no one wants no deal

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that. I’m sure that there are plenty of spivs of one sort of another who think they can make money or political capital out of it.

And plenty more swivel-eyed loons.

 

[Darat]

This last part is a repeated lie.

It's actually mainly the opposition: Labour, Liberal, SNP, Green, Plaid, that prevented us leaving in March. Providing the opposition, plus the DUP, voted against May's deal, it made no difference if the entire Tory party, including Brexiter European Research Group, voted for the deal - it would still never have passed.

So it's completely wrong to say it was "mainly Brexiters that stopped us leaving in March": If all the Brexiters had voted in favour of May's deal, that would have made no difference whatsoever.

You seem to be unaware that the conservative government had at that time a working majority (with the DUP), if Ress Mog and his ilk had not voted against leaving we would have left months ago.

It's a plain fact that the leavers have prevented us leaving for months and months.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I guess it depends on what the post-independence trade deal with the rUK looks like. If Scotland chooses not to, or is unable to, join the EU then it is possible that a customs union with free movement of people could be established. Under those circumstances there would be no need for a hard border at all.

Scotland will join the EU immediately upon independence. That much is a no brainer.

If Scotland joins the EU then yes, it does become more tricky. The good news for Scotland is that the magic border technology will have been trialled on the island of Ireland and all unicorns will be working at 100% efficiency and 100% capacity.

I look forward to the unicorn express from Edinburgh to Newcastle but I feel sorry for the Berwick Rangers players who will need to apply for visas every fortnight.

Back in the real world it may cause major challenges for Scotland. As with Ireland, it's not clear whether rUK can be used as a land bridge to the rest of the EU because of delays at English ports and whatever tariff and tax considerations may have to be put in place. Scotland would likely need to significantly upgrade its port infrastructure so that a far greater proportion of EU trade can come directly. This is not necessarily a bad thing in any case.

Indeed. It will cause major problems potentially in both directions as England may find itself short of luxuries such as electricity and water

As with the border on the island of Ireland, it would likely be a smuggler's playground if tariff differences make that kind of thing worthwhile. We could see a return of the border reivers but instead of stealing cattle, they're delivering wine.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Whether being surrounded by the EU all sides would make England change its mind about customs union or not I guess is open to debate. But you also have to bear in mind that probably in 5 -10 years England will be wanting to rejoin the EU anyway.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I know the vast majority of posters on here are adamant remainers. Providing you openly admit it, it's a reasonable position to take.

I should have said "moaning remainer MPs". Those are whom I was referring to when I said they SAY they "want to stop a no-deal Brexit" when what (most) of them should say, if they were honest, is that they "want to stop Brexit entirely."

Those MPs were democratically elected by the 'will of the people(TM)' at a general election so they have every right to be heard and to act in the interests of their constituencies. Those who want a no deal Brexit are a minority of loonies.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

This last part is a repeated lie.

It's actually mainly the opposition: Labour, Liberal, SNP, Green, Plaid, that prevented us leaving in March. Providing the opposition, plus the DUP, voted against May's deal, it made no difference if the entire Tory party, including Brexiter European Research Group, voted for the deal - it would still never have passed.

So it's completely wrong to say it was "mainly Brexiters that stopped us leaving in March": If all the Brexiters had voted in favour of May's deal, that would have made no difference whatsoever.

The DUP are Brexiteers so why are they counted on the opposition side? As are a number of Labour MPs and the party as a whole.

Liberal SNP Green and Plaid were elected by the public to oppose leaving the EU. What do you expect them to do?

The fact remains though that if the ERG supported leaving then we would already have left. They didn't.

 

[Parsman]

The DUP are Brexiteers so why are they counted on the opposition side? As are a number of Labour MPs and the party as a whole.

Liberal SNP Green and Plaid were elected by the public to oppose leaving the EU. What do you expect them to do?

The fact remains though that if the ERG supported leaving then we would already have left. They didn't.

Ah but Ceptimus tugged his forelock and believed whatever Lord Snooty and his chums told him. Must be the fault of the rotters on the other side after all! And if JRM and co happen to make more money out of this chaos well that is just a fortunate by product after all.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Ah but Ceptimus tugged his forelock and believed whatever Lord Snooty and his chums told him. Must be the fault of the rotters on the other side after all! And if JRM and co happen to make more money out of this chaos well that is just a fortunate by product after all.

There should be clear conflict of interest legislation for sitting MPs which does not allow them to be invested in anything that will profit if the country's economy declines.

They should be banned from currency speculation, banned from shorting stocks or similar types of investments, etc and banned from investing in, working for or otherwise profiting from any companies which do .

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Scotland will join the EU immediately upon independence. That much is a no brainer.



I look forward to the unicorn express from Edinburgh to Newcastle but I feel sorry for the Berwick Rangers players who will need to apply for visas every fortnight.



Indeed. It will cause major problems potentially in both directions as England may find itself short of luxuries such as electricity and water *

As with the border on the island of Ireland, it would likely be a smuggler's playground if tariff differences make that kind of thing worthwhile. We could see a return of the border reivers but instead of stealing cattle, they're delivering wine.

Indeed. Whether being surrounded by the EU all sides would make England change its mind about customs union or not I guess is open to debate. But you also have to bear in mind that probably in 5 -10 years England will be wanting to rejoin the EU anyway.

As long as they have Wales, England will have plenty of water. Lose Wales and the Midlands are ******.

 

[The Don]

A peaceful 2 hour march though Bristol bringing the city to a halt. Despite the best efforts of a few right wing agents provocateur, no trouble at all.

 

[Information Analyst]

Maybe some people in the UK are thinking that maybe the almost total prohibition on private citizens owning any kind of firearm was not such a great idea after all.....you give up the last resort defense against a dictator.

You mean with all those firearms the population never had? Everything suggests that, even before there was regulation of any sort, possession was just as marginal back then as it is now.

 

[Nessie]

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that. I’m sure that there are plenty of spivs of one sort of another who think they can make money or political capital out of it.

And plenty more swivel-eyed loons.

I am primarily referring to MPs and none have come out saying their preference is no deal, AFAIK. There are those who are threatening no deal to try and get their deal, which would be fine, if we knew what their idea of a deal was.

 

[Information Analyst]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...confronts-boris-johnson-over-advisers-sacking

The revolution eats its own.

Massive breech of employment law, I would think.

 

[Nessie]

This last part is a repeated lie.

It's actually mainly the opposition: Labour, Liberal, SNP, Green, Plaid, that prevented us leaving in March. Providing the opposition, plus the DUP, voted against May's deal, it made no difference if the entire Tory party, including Brexiter European Research Group, voted for the deal - it would still never have passed.

So it's completely wrong to say it was "mainly Brexiters that stopped us leaving in March": If all the Brexiters had voted in favour of May's deal, that would have made no difference whatsoever.

The Tories with the DUP had a majority. That they could not agree on the deal May had negotiated is what stopped the UK leaving earlier.

When the majority government splits, it cannot be a majority any more and the fault for that lies squarely with the majority government.

The opposition tends not to vote with the majority government, so when the opposition does what the opposition normally does, you cannot shift blame on it.

 

[Information Analyst]

Keep with the insults and assertions of lying. A pathetic form of non-critical thinking. Shame on you.

Meanwhile the moaning remainers...

Heavy irony. As usual.

 

[ceptimus]

You seem to be unaware that the conservative government had at that time a working majority (with the DUP), if Ress Mog and his ilk had not voted against leaving we would have left months ago.

It's a plain fact that the leavers have prevented us leaving for months and months.

No you're wrong again. You didn't read my post - I mentioned the DUP. The DUP were never going to vote for the deal - they made that very clear. So providing the official opposition were solid, how the Tory brexiters voted made no difference.

If Labour were so set against a no-deal, then they could have had a remain-friendly deal (Mrs May's) very easily back in February or whenever the first vote on May's deal was held. All the Labour party had to do was vote for the deal - they didn't even need the SNP or other opposition parties. It would have prevented a no-deal, and likely also prevented Boris becoming PM.

 

[Mr Fied]

No you're wrong again. You didn't read my post - I mentioned the DUP. The DUP were never going to vote for the deal - they made that very clear. So providing the official opposition were solid, how the Tory brexiters voted made no difference.

If Labour were so set against a no-deal, then they could have had a remain-friendly deal (Mrs May's) very easily back in February or whenever the first vote on May's deal was held. All the Labour party had to do was vote for the deal - they didn't even need the SNP or other opposition parties. It would have prevented a no-deal, and likely also prevented Boris becoming PM.

Did every Tory MP vote for any deal offered? No.

Until they get their act together don't try to blame anyone else for this complete cock up the useless ****s have created.

They have no one to blame but themselves, they created the mess and haven't got a clue how to get out of it without looking like the complete and utterly incompetent fools we know they are.