Cont: Man shot, killed by off-duty Dallas police officer who walked into wrong apartment p2

[Belz...]

Going to the wrong door is something I can accept one can do "unconsciously" if you like.

But entering an apartment, and deciding to kill someone and taking several steps to do that - nope I don't think you can do that "unconsciously" (and if someone could they are a clear and literally a deadly danger to society!)

That wasn't the question I asked.

 

[plague311]

*should shut themselves. I can walk you down to Penn's Landing and show you self closing doors in condos that notoriously stick. Might have this problem in the South Flats, too

If his door was not functioning correctly it would almost assuredly come out by now.

The part I keep coming back to is that the grand jury had a myriad of charges they could have charged her with and they went with Murder 2. Of course, you always shoot high and then settle lower, but that goes to show something to me.

 

[Thermal]

If his door was not functioning correctly it would almost assuredly come out by now.

Why? Has the electronic lock information come out? Who would report it? Jean's family or the apartment building, being the only ones presumably with access? Why would they publicly release that?

The part I keep coming back to is that the grand jury had a myriad of charges they could have charged her with and they went with Murder 2. Of course, you always shoot high and then settle lower, but that goes to show something to me.

I think murder 2 is exactly what she is guilty of, based on what we know. If you...ahem...cut her more slack, you are of course entitled to that opinion.

 

[Drewbot]

If his door was not functioning correctly it would almost assuredly come out by now.

The parties are under a gag order I believe.
If he turned the deadbolt so his door rested open, a simple push would have opened the door.

The lock recorder would probably register this situation as locked.

It's going to come down to evidence of forced entry, or no forced entry.

Another possibility is he opened the door for her and she pushed in, gun drawn, he backing up, and she shot him.

We won't know this until the trial unfortunately.

 

[Thermal]

And of course, if the early report of knocking and saying 'let me in' has any teeth, the whole mistake of fact and self defense things are thrown out the window. You don't knock on your own door and demand entry where you live alone. I vaguely recall that the witness backpedaled on that report, though?

 

[plague311]

Why? Has the electronic lock information come out? Who would report it? Jean's family or the apartment building, being the only ones presumably with access? Why would they publicly release that?

What would the electric lock information have to do with anything? I am positive that it would have been reported to the building supervisor, unless it was completely unknown to Jean. The doors are spring loaded, meaning there would be nothing that would report the door being opened. It only records the electronic information in the lock, so the only thing that would register is her key being denied. So the lock information would only prove\disprove her claim that she stuck her key in the door.

The part I would be most interested in is the door makes a noise when it's propped open, like a few of the hotels I've stayed in do. If it's just left open then the door dings saying it's open.

I think murder 2 is exactly what she is guilty of, based on what we know. If you...ahem...cut her more slack, you are of course entitled to that opinion.

Yes, we get it. The tragedies you've had to endure are second to none, and I fail to see how you have even managed to survive such relentless attacks. My admiration knows no bounds.

That being said, I still haven't come to an absolute conclusion as to what she should be charged with but I certainly hope they start moving forward sometime soon. I'm extremely interested in the evidence they've collected.

ETA: I was referring to the door being left open.

 

[plague311]

The parties are under a gag order I believe.
If he turned the deadbolt so his door rested open, a simple push would have opened the door.

Yes, you've repeatedly stated this while providing absolutely no reasoning behind WHY he would prop his door open.

The lock recorder would probably register this situation as locked.

Anything is possible, but again, Occam's Razor exists for a reason.

It's going to come down to evidence of forced entry, or no forced entry.

Another possibility is he opened the door for her and she pushed in, gun drawn, he backing up, and she shot him.

We won't know this until the trial unfortunately.

True, the available evidence could lead in all sorts of directions.

It could even be that this entire thing was actually pre-meditated. She came home, parked her car on the fourth floor, deliberately walked to his door, knocked until he opened it, shot him and then staged the crime scene.

 

[Thermal]

What would the electric lock information have to do with anything? I am positive that it would have been reported to the building supervisor, unless it was completely unknown to Jean. The doors are spring loaded, meaning there would be nothing that would report the door being opened. It only records the electronic information in the lock, so the only thing that would register is her key being denied. So the lock information would only prove\disprove her claim that she stuck her key in the door.

You opined that such mechanical evidence at the crime scene would have been disclosed already. I point out that other mechanical evidence is being withheld, so why make an exception for the hinges?

Plus, the lock records could blow holes in her story, if she didn't try her key in it, so the records might have a hellof a lot to do with everything.

The part I would be most interested in is the door makes a noise when it's propped open, like a few of the hotels I've stayed in do. If it's just left open then the door dings saying it's open.

Doubt it, on an apartment or condo, but possible. The people who put out the self closing hinge video surely would have mentioned that?

Yes, we get it. The tragedies you've had to endure are second to none, and I fail to see how you have even managed to survive such relentless attacks. My admiration knows no bounds.

I was kidding. Lighten up, gramps

That being said, I still haven't come to an absolute conclusion as to what she should be charged with but I certainly hope they start moving forward sometime soon. I'm extremely interested in the evidence they've collected.

I'd be more interested in the jury's interpretation of these barbaric deadly force laws

 

[Darat]

That wasn't the question I asked.

Of course it isn't, it's the answer to your question.

 

[Bob001]

Why? Has the electronic lock information come out? Who would report it? Jean's family or the apartment building, being the only ones presumably with access? Why would they publicly release that?
.....

Are we sure that the electronic locks in this particular building actually record and store usage? I don't think every system does that. The residents of an apartment or condo building might even consider it an invasion of privacy if the management is documenting their comings and goings.

 

[plague311]

You opined that such mechanical evidence at the crime scene would have been disclosed already. I point out that other mechanical evidence is being withheld, so why make an exception for the hinges?

My fault, I was thinking of your reply as to apply to the door being open. I don't think the duration of the door being open would be recording. Possibly though.

Plus, the lock records could blow holes in her story, if she didn't try her key in it, so the records might have a hellof a lot to do with everything.

Yeah, I had alluded to that. I was just thinking with regards to the door being left open.

Doubt it, on an apartment or condo, but possible. The people who put out the self closing hinge video surely would have mentioned that?

You would think so, but maybe if the deadbolt is set to locked it would think it was closed. They look like newer places and at least a little fancy.

I was kidding. Lighten up, gramps

Freshly ordained even.

I'd be more interested in the jury's interpretation of these barbaric deadly force laws

It's Texas...

Are we sure that the electronic locks in this particular building actually record and store usage? I don't think every system does that. The residents of an apartment or condo building might even consider it an invasion of privacy if the management is documenting their comings and goings.

I assumed so because the police took them to get information off of them.

To be fair, you would have to take the lock off to get the information from the actual doorlock. All the ones I've worked with anyway.

 

[Thermal]

Are we sure that the electronic locks in this particular building actually record and store usage? I don't think every system does that. The residents of an apartment or condo building might even consider it an invasion of privacy if the management is documenting their comings and goings.

I recall the exact model of lock being reported last year, but it may not have been on this forum. Going by memory, it passively records without transferring information to the owner, which is why the police had to physically remove it rather than consult apartment electronic records. Also IIRC, it registers as being open unless it hits a magnetic contact in the receiver, so it wouldn't give a false locked reading if it was propped open

 

[Thermal]

<respectful snip>

It's Texas....

Therein lies my fear, not to stereotype Texans or anything. How much these guys value shooting people may truly be put to the test with this one.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Therein lies my fear, not to stereotype Texans or anything. How much these guys and gals value shooting people may truly be put to the test with this one.

You keep mischaracterizing my state and it is embarrassing. I fixed it this time, but I really expect better from you in the future.

 

[Thermal]

You keep mischaracterizing my state and it is embarrassing. I fixed it this time, but I really expect better from you in the future.

Fair cop. So to speak.

 

[quadraginta]

The information is far from complete, however, it has been presented that the doors to these apartments shut themselves.
She could still have retreated- but it would have been more difficult to do so without turning around had the door shut behind her.

Is this the same door that (allegedly) wasn't closing properly before she got there?

 

[quadraginta]

One other thing regarding this 'her house's thing. She was not the property owner. She was a leasing tenant. Even if she was in the hall, I think her leasing terms would extend to the hall and other common areas, and castle doctrine would still apply. Surely there would be Texas precedent on that?

<snip>

Would that mean that she could gun down anyone she happened to run across in the hallways with impunity if she decided she felt threatened?

 

[quadraginta]

The parties are under a gag order I believe.
If he turned the deadbolt so his door rested open, a simple push would have opened the door.

<snip>

Do we know for certain that he couldn't just leave his door unlocked? Latched, but not locked? He wasn't living in a hotel room.

 

[quadraginta]

What would the electric lock information have to do with anything? I am positive that it would have been reported to the building supervisor, unless it was completely unknown to Jean. The doors are spring loaded, meaning there would be nothing that would report the door being opened. It only records the electronic information in the lock, so the only thing that would register is her key being denied. So the lock information would only prove\disprove her claim that she stuck her key in the door.

The part I would be most interested in is the door makes a noise when it's propped open, like a few of the hotels I've stayed in do. If it's just left open then the door dings saying it's open.

<snip>

Same question.

I haven't seen this addressed yet, even in the discussions about the lockset.

 

[Distracted1]

Is this the same door that (allegedly) wasn't closing properly before she got there?

Possibly not latching properly, was the discussion.
As doors of that style sometimes don't. They appear to have closed and locked- yet the lock is not completely engaged and the door can still be opened.