Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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Strawberry said:
The circumstances surrounding the Act of Union of 1707 which dissolved Scotland's parliament and the Act of Union of 1801 which dissolved the Irish parliament are virtually identical, so however you determine it you would logically have to put Scotland and Ireland in the same category.

A fair amount of Scots are in denial about that I think.
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Whatever the circumstances of joining I don't see how it matters either way for the process of leaving either.
 
The Don said:
The trouble is that the Conservative government is dogmatically committed to delivering a no-deal Brexit. In the past large-scale demonstrations might swing sentiment and as a result change government policy but that's not the case here because the government is well aware that a no-deal Brexit is very unpopular (in a recent UGov poll, there was a 2:1 unfavourable:favourable view on a no-deal, though there was also a lot of undecideds) and simply do not give a stuff.

Whether it's a matter of political principle or a naked attempt to enrich themselves and their backers is irrelevant, no amount of protest could make them change course.
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Which is why your standard demonstrations won't be enough. They need to grow and become a true nuisance. Think Hong Kong.

Might not be enough either, but it'll show the world that the Brits aren't going to take the death of their democracy lying down.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Whatever the circumstances of joining I don't see how it matters either way for the process of leaving either.
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It probably doesn't really, although I do think Scottish nationalists would be very unwise to ignore the fact that there is a precedent for leaving the UK.

It's a bit off topic though, so I will leave it at that.
 
Strawberry said:
It probably doesn't really, although I do think Scottish nationalists would be very unwise to ignore the fact that there is a precedent for leaving the UK.

It's a bit off topic though, so I will leave it at that.
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I am sure that they all know about the Act of Union that brought Ireland into the UK, which was a glaring gap in my knowledge. I thought Ireland had just been colonised and subsumed (which it was originally), I did not know that it had, for a time, been formally made part of the UK.

It is not particularly relevant to Scottish nationalism, since the history of each part of the UK and Ireland and how each came to be in the UK is very different.

What is relevant is that the Scots have always known that they can leave and Brexit is now making that more likely as the divisions between England and Scotland in particular have increased.

History studies in the future, if Scotland does leave, will I am sure include the question, to what extent did leaving the EU cause Scotland to leave the UK? The answer will be, to a large extent.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
The written rules were written with unwritten rules in mind that were, at the time, considered binding. I doubt the rules of soccer or baseball specifically prohibit the use of jetpacks, but we understand that would be against the spirit of them.
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Dunno about baseball, but while the rules of soccer don't specifically rule out lots of things (as that would be a neverending task), they explicitly do so by being specific about what is allowed.

  • jersey or shirt with sleeves
  • shorts
  • stockings
  • shinguards
  • footwear
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https://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/Fo...ng/02/36/01/11/LawsofthegamewebEN_Neutral.pdf
 
That's not to say that there are no unwritten rules in soccer - but equipment isn't one of them.
 
Nessie said:
I am sure that they all know about the Act of Union that brought Ireland into the UK, which was a glaring gap in my knowledge. I thought Ireland had just been colonised and subsumed (which it was originally), I did not know that it had, for a time, been formally made part of the UK.

It is not particularly relevant to Scottish nationalism, since the history of each part of the UK and Ireland and how each came to be in the UK is very different.

What is relevant is that the Scots have always known that they can leave and Brexit is now making that more likely as the divisions between England and Scotland in particular have increased.

History studies in the future, if Scotland does leave, will I am sure include the question, to what extent did leaving the EU cause Scotland to leave the UK? The answer will be, to a large extent.
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I disagree, I think it's very relevant to Scottish nationalism. However, it's also a topic for another thread.

Brexit is doing for Scotland what the First World War did for Ireland, in the sense that it's opening the eyes of people who were previously acquiescent to the status quo about the true nature of the Union they are in.
 
Information Analyst said:
We only have to see Ceptimus's recent comment to know the yardstick Hard Brexit supporters use, even though petitions in favour of what they want don't get a fraction of the signatures of those they oppose.
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Losers tend to resort to petitions when they're powerless to do anything else. Most petitions achieve very little other than providing a morsel of comfort to those who've signed them: it gives them the feeling that they've at least done something.

When things are going your way, there's little or no incentive to bother signing petitions congratulating the way things are going.
 
Strawberry said:
Actually it might be a good time for someone to start a separate thread on Scottish independence.
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Should there be a referendum to determine whether this should have its own thread or whether it continues in union with the original thread ? :p
 
uke2se said:
Any mass demonstrations yet?
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There's one scheduled for Saturday called for by ex-Newsnight reporter Paul Mason, and the BBC were diligent in broadcasting the video of his call on Newsnight last night, complete with F-bomb, so as to ensure as many as possible turn out.


Paul Mason said:
We, the British people, will be outside Downing Street and 12 o’clock on Saturday. We are coming for you Boris Johnson, ready or ********** not.
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The Don said:
The trouble is that the Conservative government is dogmatically committed to delivering a no-deal Brexit. In the past large-scale demonstrations might swing sentiment and as a result change government policy but that's not the case here because the government is well aware that a no-deal Brexit is very unpopular (in a recent UGov poll, there was a 2:1 unfavourable:favourable view on a no-deal, though there was also a lot of undecideds) and simply do not give a stuff.

Whether it's a matter of political principle or a naked attempt to enrich themselves and their backers is irrelevant, no amount of protest could make them change course.
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I'm getting annoyed at interviewers not bringing up something when they interview Rees-Mog when he goes on about remainers in parliament. And that is he has consistently voted against leaving the EU, if his block hadn't voted against leaving we could have left the EU in March. And many of the MPs he calls remainers and apparently (to paraphrase) will do anything to not leave, voted to leave the EU in such votes!
 
BobTheCoward said:
I did not claim that. I have no idea if they support it or not. That is why I used the word "seems" and why I'm asking a bunch of questions about parliaments.
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I already told you that Parliament has already voted against a no-deal Brexit. We know they don’t support it. It wouldn’t matter anyway, suspending Parliament to bypass it’s authority is a huge problem regardless of whether BoJo really needed to do it. It’s a direct attack on a core principle of UK Democracy.
 
lomiller said:
I already told you that Parliament has already voted against a no-deal Brexit. We know they don’t support it. It wouldn’t matter anyway, suspending Parliament to bypass it’s authority is a huge problem regardless of whether BoJo really needed to do it. It’s a direct attack on a core principle of UK Democracy.
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The leader selected under the rules of parliament followed the rules of parliament. I don't understand what the problem is.
 
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