Daniel Holtzclaw. Could he be innocent?

[Caper]

So Daniel Holtzclaw is the police officer charged and convicted with the rape. Multiple women accused him. I think he was sentenced raping and/or assaulting 13 of them. It seemed pretty open and shut for me, kind of in the same Bill Cosby way... if there is that much smoke there is probably fire. Convicted to 250 years in prison. The case got pretty big for a couple of reasons. First it was a police officer targeting poor black women and second was because of major backlash SB Nation got when it released a story, largely sympathetic to Holtzclaw.

So now conservative columnist Michelle Malkin is going to bat for Holtzclaw with a new 2 part series on the subject and she to is getting some backlash. I heard her interview a few podcasts and she makes some interesting points. You can listen to one of them here.
http://americaoutloud.com/didnt-michelle-malkin/ begins at about 13:20 min.

I consider it a possibility he may be innocent. Though not at all convinced. I'll post this here to get the opinions of others and provide any updates if his appeal goes forward.

 

[Samson]

So Daniel Holtzclaw is the police officer charged and convicted with the rape. Multiple women accused him. I think he was sentenced raping and/or assaulting 13 of them. It seemed pretty open and shut for me, kind of in the same Bill Cosby way... if there is that much smoke there is probably fire. Convicted to 250 years in prison. The case got pretty big for a couple of reasons. First it was a police officer targeting poor black women and second was because of major backlash SB Nation got when it released a story, largely sympathetic to Holtzclaw.

So now conservative columnist Michelle Malkin is going to bat for Holtzclaw with a new 2 part series on the subject and she to is getting some backlash. I heard her interview a few podcasts and she makes some interesting points. You can listen to one of them here.
http://americaoutloud.com/didnt-michelle-malkin/ begins at about 13:20 min.

I consider it a possibility he may be innocent. Though not at all convinced. I'll post this here to get the opinions of others and provide any updates if his appeal goes forward.

He is obviously innocent after listening to this.

We are very familiar with prosecutors illegally summing up in Lundy when Philip Morgan said his wife's brain was on his shirt.

This has happened here after listening to the podcast. The prosecutor stated vaginal fluid was involved when in fact there was no forensic test to identify where epithelial cells came from. The defence could not respond as they had no more right to speak due to court rules.
There was a legitimate way the dna could be transferred in normal police work involving a very troubled black woman.

Here is a thread from IA Chris started that you will find interesting Caper.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=3359

 

[catsmate]

It seems a strong case with no significant flaws.

He is obviously innocent after listening to this.

Yeah, right.
Maybe you should look at the actual evidence... Not to mention the defense, which didn't actually cast any doubt on that evidence (GPS location, victim DNA on his clothing, his lying) but rather resorted to attacking the victims.

As the lead investigator (Kim Davis) put it:

In Daniel's mind, he didn't do anything wrong. He is above these people. These people are beneath him. And he didn't do anything wrong. I feel like if Daniel wasn't guilty and he wanted people to know he wasn't guilty. He had every opportunity to get on the stand and explain his story.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

an airtight case?

I recall some problems with the witness identifications. In a police interview during their investigation, Carla Raines initially denied that she was ever a victim of sexual assault by an officer, and another accuser wasn't able to identify Holtzclaw out of a police line-up. When Sherry Ellis described her attacker to police she said he was a black man shorter than her, which doesn't fit Holtzclaw's description. link

Jannie Ligons' description was also open to question. ""She describes her attacker as white, between 35 and 45 years old, 5-foot-7 to 5-foot-9 inches tall, with a thick build and blond hair." There should have been a line-up IMO. Mr. Holtzclaw was in his late twenties and has dark hair. I would describe him as baby faced.

The case has some evidence of tunnel vision and overstepping the data. For example, the only DNA found was sub-source and may have arisen from secondary transfer. More discussion here.
EDT
I think Mr. Holtzclaw is 6'1", not around 5'8". His build is muscular.

 

[Aepervius]

Some rape victim deny they were raped. There are obvious reason why , and some less obvious psychological reason.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

a two-way street with respect to witnesses

Some rape victim deny they were raped. There are obvious reason why , and some less obvious psychological reason.

The two witnesses I mentioned did not deny being raped; they simply gave descriptions that came nowhere near matching him. Some witnesses can be pressured or cajoled into making false statements. For example, one probable rape victim (in Washington state IIRC) was pressured into withdrawing her accusation (the cops did not believe her for some reason), despite the fact that it was probably true. A rapist with a similar MO was later apprehended in Colorado. I don't recall all of the details of this case, but it is a valuable cautionary tale for a couple of reasons.

Although I don't have a fixed opinion on this case, allow me to argue from Mr. Holtzclaw's point of view for a minute. Suppose that the police came to suspect Mr. Holtzclaw and started to fit the evidence to their hypothesis. Then they got witnesses to change their initial stories. That sort of confirmation-bias on the part of the investigators might explain the two erroneous descriptions I mentioned above, as well as other witness(es) that the jury did not find credible. Someone needs to look critically at the language of the interviews and find out whether any double-blind line-ups were done.
EDT
Of course, if the witness interviews were never recorded, there would be no way to judge whether or not the police were directing the witnesses toward certain answers (consciously or subconsciously).

 

[Caper]

It seems a strong case with no significant flaws.

Yeah, right.
Maybe you should look at the actual evidence... Not to mention the defense, which didn't actually cast any doubt on that evidence (GPS location, victim DNA on his clothing, his lying) but rather resorted to attacking the victims.

I think there was one part where a victim claimed he took her to a parking lot and raped her. Supposedly the GPS data supported the claim, but I read or heard somewhere that the GPS data showed the car never actually stopped. I will try and find it.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

IIUC he said that he stopped them (traffic violations?). I am not sure whether or not his story can be falsified on the basis of GPS data.

 

[Caper]

So right now I'm 50/50 on whether I think he is guilty or innocent. But I will tell you one of my biases that I can't get away from thinking he is guilty. His eyes, his eyes are sooo close together.

 

[Caper]

This might not be up long but here is Malkin's documentary on the case.

It's obvious she is an extremely biased source, but when you have few supporters you have to take what you can get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyR04r7_G8I

 

[desmirelle]

If I remember correctly, he was convicted on about half the charges and preyed upon women of 'dubious' character (in his eyes) so that they would be less credible. I believe he's guilty of what he was convicted, but allow that there may be another man doing the same (whether being or impersonating a cop); so he may have a 'brother from another mother' out here in OK.

 

[Caper]

If I remember correctly, he was convicted on about half the charges and preyed upon women of 'dubious' character (in his eyes) so that they would be less credible. I believe he's guilty of what he was convicted, but allow that there may be another man doing the same (whether being or impersonating a cop); so he may have a 'brother from another mother' out here in OK.

I believe there is a good chance he was guilty. I also believe there is a decent chance he was not. I am biased. I admit that. If you followed the Amanda Knox case or the Norfolk 4, you can see how this could happen. Frankly before studying those cases and others like it, I never would have believed it possible.

But just the way the investigators latched on so early to the narrative, then went hunting for victims, then you have the incredible pressure from the BLM activists, I can totally imagine a scenario where this gets out of hand.

From what I gathered so far he had 21 accusers (including a man). I think 2 have admitted to making it up. 8 including the 2 who admitted lying had their cases turfed, some of the accusations were pretty preposterous and demonstrably false (accused of assault after he was removed from his job). Another 5, he was found not guilty on. That doesn't mean he was innocent of those crimes, but considering that one of the women he was convicted on described her attacker as a short black man (he is tall and pale), you'd think the standard to convict was pretty low.

 

[pharphis]

*bump*

The appeal process failed

https://www.holtzclawtrial.com/podcastblog/2019/occa-opinion

8/1/2019 - OKC — (by Brian Bates) The Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals (OCCA) published their opinion “Affirming” (upholding) the criminal conviction and 263 year sentence of former Oklahoma City police officer Daniel Holtzclaw.

In 2016, Holtzclaw (half white and half Japanese) was convicted of 18 of 36 criminal charges stemming from the sexual assault allegations of 8 of 13 black females residing in the Springlake Patrol District. The females ranged in age from 17 - 57.

The five judge panel rendered a unanimous decision.

Holtzclaw’s criminal appeal attorney, James Lockard, appealed Holtzclaw’s conviction on the following grounds;

Insufficient Evidence

Joinder (combining all 13 accusers and 35 charges into one case was prejudicial)

‘Circus Atmosphere’

‘Overzealous Prosecutors’

Ineffective Counsel

Unconstitutionally Excessive Sentence

Due Process Rights Violated

More at link. I did a forum search to see if this case was talked about here, at all.

I wanted to add to this thread that Brian Bates who helped the defense is releasing a weekly podcast series on this go through each piece of evidence, which has caught my attention.

You can find it here (scroll down)

https://www.holtzclawtrial.com/

From what I've heard and read thus far, I believe he is innocent. I wonder how people's minds have changed (in this thread) since or if anyone has compelling evidence against what Bates is saying.

Here is Bates's summary of the case and his involvement

https://www.holtzclawtrial.com/untold-story


Hopefully I don't forget about this thread

 

[catsmate]

*bump*

The appeal process failed

Good. The raping bastard remains in prison.

I wanted to add to this thread that Brian Bates who helped the defense is releasing a weekly podcast series on this go through each piece of evidence, which has caught my attention.

If he, or you, has any actual evidence suggesting innocence please provide it.

From what I've heard and read thus far, I believe he is innocent.

Based on.......?

I wonder how people's minds have changed (in this thread) since or if anyone has compelling evidence against what Bates is saying.

I previously described it as

...a strong case with no significant flaws.

I continue with this opinion.

Here is Bates's summary of the case and his involvement

https://www.holtzclawtrial.com/untold-story

Jeebus but that's not even thin. Let's look at a few of the claims (made by someone hired by the defense and making money from the case let's not forget):

24-hours of Jannie Ligons' initial complaint, and without cause, investigators assumed there must be additional victims.

Not true.

No Need to Search

Evidence only of an investigation biased towards a fellow police officer.

GPS ‘Evidence’

Dealt with in detail at the trial. Bates' assertions are a mix of half-truths and deceptions.

13 Women Couldn't All Be Lying

Ah yes, the dog-whistling.

What the public hasn't been told is that there were actually 21 accusers in total and that 62% of all accusers were found to be not credible.

Again a distortion; the other charges weren't brought because of lack of evidence, a common problems in sexual assault cases.

No independent third party eye-witnesses and no direct evidence existed in support any of the criminal charges.

A common problem in sexual assault cases. Not evidence of innocence, especially given the evidence of guilt.

OK, I'm stopping now. This drivel is just painful. I do notice that the jury bleaching wasn't addressed.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

A few of the problems with the prosecution's case

Brian Bates wrote, "Hill’s account of being raped in a recovery room of a busy hospital emergency department is ludicrous."

Michelle Malkin's interview with expert Suzanna Ryan on the way in which the prosecution overstated the forensic results is clearly presented. Elsewhere Malkin wrote, "Reflecting on the confirmation bias that drove the investigation, the elementary failures of evidence collection and the forensic missteps, Turvey told me that he and his colleagues 'cannot understand how this case got into trial at all.'" She continued, "Turvey -- who has worked for government agencies and universities across the world and authored multiple peer-reviewed textbooks on criminal profiling and investigation, forensic criminology and victimology, forensic science, criminal justice ethics and law enforcement corruption -- called the Oklahoma City detectives' approach 'one of the most biased ways of approaching criminal investigation that (he'd) ever seen.'"

Malkin also quoted Ryan in this article about the prosecution's gross mischaracterization of how difficult or easy DNA transfer is. Having read a number of articles on this subject myself, I concur with Ms. Ryan: Not just secondary but now tertiary DNA transfer is documented in the forensic literature.

A letter coauthored by Peter Gill and other experts stated, "“During Mr. Holtzclaw’s trial, the DNA analyst drew conclusions that were inconsistent with her reported results and which may have been outside the realm of her expertise,” the experts write. “In addition, important information regarding the DNA results from the fly area of Mr. Holtzclaw’s pants was not fully disclosed during the DNA analyst’s trial testimony.”"

 

[lionking]

Brian Bates wrote, "Hill’s account of being raped in a recovery room of a busy hospital emergency department is ludicrous."

Michelle Malkin's interview with expert Suzanna Ryan on the way in which the prosecution overstated the forensic results is clearly presented. Elsewhere Malkin wrote, "Reflecting on the confirmation bias that drove the investigation, the elementary failures of evidence collection and the forensic missteps, Turvey told me that he and his colleagues 'cannot understand how this case got into trial at all.'" She continued, "Turvey -- who has worked for government agencies and universities across the world and authored multiple peer-reviewed textbooks on criminal profiling and investigation, forensic criminology and victimology, forensic science, criminal justice ethics and law enforcement corruption -- called the Oklahoma City detectives' approach 'one of the most biased ways of approaching criminal investigation that (he'd) ever seen.'"

Malkin also quoted Ryan in this article about the prosecution's gross mischaracterization of how difficult or easy DNA transfer is. Having read a number of articles on this subject myself, I concur with Ms. Ryan: Not just secondary but now tertiary DNA transfer is documented in the forensic literature.

A letter coauthored by Peter Gill and other experts stated, "“During Mr. Holtzclaw’s trial, the DNA analyst drew conclusions that were inconsistent with her reported results and which may have been outside the realm of her expertise,” the experts write. “In addition, important information regarding the DNA results from the fly area of Mr. Holtzclaw’s pants was not fully disclosed during the DNA analyst’s trial testimony.”"

Wrong again. Just like Pell.

 

[Matthew Best]

Well, your own track record is nothing to write home about, is it?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

good sources of information for this case

For those who wish to learn about DNA transfer, forensic serology, and why the source of the DNA is important (issues relevant to the present case), Suzanna Ryan's blog has some good articles. Peter Gill's book, Misleading DNA Evidence is also quite useful.

 

[pharphis]

Good. The raping bastard remains in prison.


If he, or you, has any actual evidence suggesting innocence please provide it.


Based on.......?


I previously described it as

I continue with this opinion.


Jeebus but that's not even thin. Let's look at a few of the claims (made by someone hired by the defense and making money from the case let's not forget):

Not true.

Evidence only of an investigation biased towards a fellow police officer.

Dealt with in detail at the trial. Bates' assertions are a mix of half-truths and deceptions.

Ah yes, the dog-whistling.

Again a distortion; the other charges weren't brought because of lack of evidence, a common problems in sexual assault cases.
A common problem in sexual assault cases. Not evidence of innocence, especially given the evidence of guilt.

OK, I'm stopping now. This drivel is just painful. I do notice that the jury bleaching wasn't addressed.

8. Even if he didn’t Rape Nobody.”: Investigators, and even Oklahoma County District Attorney David Prater, would have you believe that the only reason 18 of the counts and five of the accuser’s assertions were denied by the jury was because there simply wasn’t enough evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt – and that those women were ‘victims’ nonetheless. That assertion is misleading and untrue. In reality, the evidence for all of the accusations by all of the accusers was the same; They came into contact with Daniel Holtzclaw while he was on patrol and he committed a sexual assault upon them. No independent third party eye-witnesses and no direct evidence existed in support any of the criminal charges. The accusers that were denied their assertions were done so because they were proven to be liars by the defense. Take the example of one of the most high profile accusers, Shardayreon Hill. Her story has been retold hundreds of times by the media – it’s pretty damning stuff… Daniel allegedly sexually assaulted Hill while she was high and handcuffed to a hospital bed, days later he friends her on Facebook, he engages her in direct messages and phone calls. Daniel even admits to going over to her house – where Hill claims she was assaulted again. Yet, all of her charges (6 total) Daniel was acquitted of. Why? Because she lied. Hill’s account of being raped in a recovery room of a busy hospital emergency department is ludicrous. When confronted with the reality that none of her Facebook conversations with Daniel contained even a hint of sexual contact (consensual or otherwise) she claimed under oath that “he knew better than to put it into writing” and only talked inappropriately to her during their phone calls. However, phone records clearly showed the phone calls were limited to two, five-second calls – most likely never answered by the other party. The bombshell came when I located a video and audio recorded interview of Detective Rocky Gregory interviewing Hill. After the interview was over and Hill was outside the interview room, she made this statement she didn’t know would be recorded, “Is this good evidence? Even if he didn’t rape nobody, he’s still getting in contact with people he’s arrested.” Hill had just spent over an hour describing how she alleged Daniel repeatedly sexually assaulted her. Yet, she doesn't say "even if he didn't rape those other women." No, Hill clearly says "even if he didn't rape NOBODY..." Hill's allegations resulted in 6 criminal charges. Daniel was acquitted of all 6. Not because there wasn't enough evidence of guilty, but because there was overwhelming evidence Hill lied under oath. Despite her allegations not being believed by the jury, Hill is still often paraded before the media and the public as a victim. Hill has a pending federal civil lawsuit where she hopes to collect millions of dollars.

Also, can you clarify what "dog whistle" you are referring to?

edit: I should clarify: I believe he is "not guilty" and certainly not "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". I happen to think he is likely innocent as well, but think this case was ridiculous to have gotten this far and with such a large sentence for no direct evidence. I believe the investigators (for whatever reason - probably several combined cognitive failures or bad faith acting) did a piss-poor job.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Federal deposition

"Following his testimony Monday, renowned exoneration attorney Kathleen Zellner tweeted about her client saying in part, 'Today Daniel Holtzclaw forcefully, fearlessly and courageously testified in his lengthy deposition that he is an innocent man wrongfully convicted. He did not take the 5th - he confronted his accusers and made a compelling case that he is innocent.'" NewsOK
Among Kathleen Zellner's former clients is Ryan Ferguson.