Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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Craig B said:
From the Guardian:
"Boris Johnson has been described as a threat to the “very nature” of British democracy at a cross-party meeting where MPs agreed to form an alternative parliament in the event of the prime minister shutting down the existing one to make a no-deal Brexit happen.

...

They signed the Church House declaration, which said shutting down parliament would be “an undemocratic outrage at such a crucial moment for our country, and a historic constitutional crisis”.​
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We the undersigned are jolly cross about democracy being destroyed at this critical juncture but unfortunately the leader of the largest opposition party is far more interested in trying to become Prime Minister than he is with trying to stop a no-deal Brexit and backbones are in short supply in the Conservative Party. :(
 
The Don said:
We the undersigned are jolly cross about democracy being destroyed at this critical juncture but unfortunately the leader of the largest opposition party is far more interested in trying to become Prime Minister than he is with trying to stop a no-deal Brexit and backbones are in short supply in the Conservative Party. :(
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That's what you get for electing xenos to serve as your MPs. We warned you not to support rights for molluscs.

McHrozni
 
The Don said:
We the undersigned are jolly cross about democracy being destroyed at this critical juncture but unfortunately the leader of the largest opposition party is far more interested in trying to become Prime Minister than he is with trying to stop a no-deal Brexit and backbones are in short supply in the Conservative Party. :(
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Youre right about the opposition leader. Maybe the shock of this will smoke Corbyn out of his hiding place and force him to make a clear and resolute decision to oppose Brexit and defend the constitutional order from usurpation by populist idiots and xenophobes.

Or is even that limited aspiration too much to hope for?
 
Craig B said:
Youre right about the opposition leader. Maybe the shock of this will smoke Corbyn out of his hiding place and force him to make a clear and resolute decision to oppose Brexit and defend the constitutional order from usurpation by populist idiots and xenophobes.

Or is even that limited aspiration too much to hope for?
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Well, you are asking a populist idiot and xenophobe to do all that.

So, yes?

It might be possible that Corbyn will not stand in the way of principled politicians preventing a no-deal Brexit, but that's the best you can hope for. Right now they agreed not to call a no-confidence vote immediately but legislate against a no-deal Brexit instead. I can come up with an easy law: if there is no deal with EU 48 hours before Brexit, PM must unilaterarily revoke article 50 and the question leaving the EU must not be reopened in Parliament for at least 5 years (the time limit is necessary to ensure the call is made in good faith).

Had Corbyn not been a populist idiot and xenophobe there would be such a backstop in place already and the question of Brexit ended one way or another. Since he's both he'll probably be against such a law, because it could end in no Brexit at all. That means a no-confidence vote in October, perhaps even a no-deal Brexit without a government anda an election amids the Blitz. Fun.

I'm glad there is a body of water between us. That will really cut down on necessary fencing if it comes that far.

McHrozni
 
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GlennB said:
I wonder if this is one of those deliberate 'leaks' that's designed to check the reaction to a proposal? If not and they go ahead with this then we indeed live in very interesting times.
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I doubt BoJo and the Brexiteers are up to the Beiderbecke strategm.
 
Craig B said:
Youre right about the opposition leader. Maybe the shock of this will smoke Corbyn out of his hiding place and force him to make a clear and resolute decision to oppose Brexit and defend the constitutional order from usurpation by populist idiots and xenophobes.

Or is even that limited aspiration too much to hope for?
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Corbyn is a Brexiteer. That's why he was mainly conspicuous by his absence during the referendum campaign.
 
Darat said:
Have a check, the terrorism hasn't stopped. But for some reason why say a prison officer is killed by a bomb it hardly makes the news. As an example: https://www.irishnews.com/news/nort...er-adrian-ismay-murder-goe-son-trial-1453027/
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Yes, I'm aware of that, but was addressing Bob's suggestion that the young generation wouldn't be open to such activities, given that things scaled down significantly after the GFA. The shooting/bombing has generally stopped, but much of the folk propaganda hasn't.
 
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A very wealthy man, who became the most powerful person in the country by winning the votes of 140,000 people, will ask a woman in a gold hat to shut down parliament in yet another normal day in British democracy.
 
BJ wants to make sure the UK leaves, that is his priority. He will do anything so long the UK leaves the EU.

He is happy to negotiate the withdrawal after the UK has left; arrange trade deals, residency rights etc.
 
I assume there will be mass demonstrations today? The London population has already shown that it's able.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
A very wealthy man, who became the most powerful person in the country by winning the votes of 140,000 people, will ask a woman in a gold hat to shut down parliament in yet another normal day in British democracy.
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The only reassuring aspect of your observation is that (fortunately) today's events aren't very normal. On the contrary, they are unusual and disquieting.

What we need to find out now is whether the constitution's self preservation mechanisms are equal to the task of sustaining UK democracy in the face of Boris's assault on it. Perhaps indeed they are not, and then we are in serious trouble.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
A very wealthy man, who became the most powerful person in the country by winning the votes of 140,000 people, will ask a woman in a gold hat to shut down parliament in yet another normal day in British democracy.
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Wrong.


The Prime Minister denied the move was designed to prevent MPs the time to stop a no-deal Brexit.
"No, that is completely untrue," Mr Johnson said.
Mr Johnson said MPs would have "ample time" to debate the UK's departure from the EU, which is currently set for October 31.
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Ample time. See.
 
Craig B said:
The only reassuring aspect of your observation is that (fortunately) today's events aren't very normal. On the contrary, they are unusual and disquieting.

What we need to find out now is whether the constitution's self preservation mechanisms are equal to the task of sustaining UK democracy in the face of Boris's assault on it. Perhaps indeed they are not, and then we are in serious trouble.
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The problem with these mecahisms is that they rely on the opposition to moderate and counteract the dangerous moves by the government. That's the main problem with democracy - it only works so long as there is a credible opposition. That's how Poland and Hungary are able to get away with so much authoritarianism, there are no suitable, credible oppositions in their countries. That's the MO of Putin: suppress the credible opposition and allow a choice between yourself and lunatics. Two opposing lunatic groups, just to be safe.

In Brexit Britain the main opposition compromised itself with it's own near-treasonous stance and would be beaten in an election. It literarily has no good solutions left, it is possible that, if prorogation goes through, BJ won. Even if there are elections before Brexit (suppose there's an extension), without an election pact between all remainers there's no guarantee they'd be able to prevent a Tory majority.

Then again, this assault on British democracy must go through first. Can the Queen prorogue Parliament for a single week?

McHrozni
 
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