The Electric Comet Theory Part IV/SAFIRE

[tusenfem]

Why unusualy high?

From an earlier abstract (you might do some investigating yourself):

The magnetometer onboard ESA's Rosetta orbiter detected its highest magnetic field magnitude of 250nT in July 2015, close to perihelion. This magnitude was an enhancement of a factor of five compared to normal values, which makes this the highest interplanetary magnetic field ever measured. We have examined the solar wind conditions at the time and found that a corotating interaction region (CIR), accompanied by a fast flow is the trigger for this unusual event.

 

[jonesdave116]

How’d the water production rate correlate with the impact of CME?

Considering the post above on Ceres..

In July 2015? Why would it? This was only a month before perihelion. Coma is too thick for the CME to actually reach the surface and cause increased sputtering. Ceres does not have an atmosphere. Ergo, solar wind and CMEs can reach the surface. All that can happen is that the coma and induced magnetosphere of the comet will be compressed. I am assuming that is why we have got such a high magnetic field. It all gets piled up. I could be wrong, but it seems logical.

ETA:
Indeed, this seems to have happened also in October 2015, at a lower level;

We present Rosetta observations from comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko during the impact of a coronal mass ejection (CME). The CME impacted on 2015 Oct 5–6, when Rosetta was about 800 km from the comet nucleus, and 1.4 au from the Sun. Upon impact, the plasma environment is compressed to the level that solar wind ions, not seen a few days earlier when at 1500 km, now reach Rosetta. In response to the compression, the flux of suprathermal electrons increases by a factor of 5–10 and the background magnetic field strength increases by a factor of ∼2.5.

CME impact on comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Edberg, N. J. T. et al.
https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/462/Suppl_1/S45/2633360

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

???

Electron acceleration at comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
Flow pattern of accelerated cometary ions inside and outside the diamagnetic cavity of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Cool, lets see how we put all this acceleration together...

Oh look, more classic pseudo science behaviour. Lets ignore the fact that my entire theory is baseless and focus on a small and obsucre detail that, when taken out of context and ignoring to already given explanations, might contain some words that I like.

There are electrons and protons moving trough ALL of space. We've been observing them for decades.
Never have any of the massive electrical fields needed for the EC theory to be true detected.
Therefore EC and EU are fantasy. And while they are entertaining fantasy, they have no place in science.

*unless* of course you can explain the clear contradiction between your theory and even the simplest empirical data. But rather than do that you try to distract with minutiae.

 

[jonesdave116]

Oh look, more classic pseudo science behaviour. Lets ignore the fact that my entire theory is baseless and focus on a small and obsucre detail that, when taken out of context and ignoring to already given explanations, might contain some words that I like.

There are electrons and protons moving trough ALL of space. We've been observing them for decades.
Never have any of the massive electrical fields needed for the EC theory to be true detected.
Therefore EC and EU are fantasy. And while they are entertaining fantasy, they have no place in science.

*unless* of course you can explain the clear contradiction between your theory and even the simplest empirical data. But rather than do that you try to distract with minutiae.

The irony being the mention of the diamagnetic cavity. Its existence, confirmed in artificial comet experiments in 1984-5, and also in-situ at 1P/Halley, tells us, definitively, that the solar wind is not reaching the nucleus. Other observations also support this at 67P, but the essential fact is that we knew this in the mid-80s. And it was predicted in the 60s (iirc).
The ironic part is that the genius Thornhill, in 2006, has some sort of electric woo (EDM?) producing undetectable O^- ions from the surface, which combine with H⁺ from the solar wind to create OH, which dumb scientists mistake as a breakdown product of water vapour, despite multiple definitive detections of water at comets from 1986 - 2006.
Of course, the total lack of a magnetic signature within the cavity rather kicks this EDM up the Khyber! Not to mention that the water (that isn't there, according to Thornhill, or is created by the non-existent O^- combining twice with H⁺ from the solar wind, according to others) is detected within the cavity, where the solar wind isn't reaching!

If I was an EU wooist, I would steer well clear of the diamagnetic cavity. It is a perfect example of how appallingly unscientific this electric comet lark is!

 

[jonesdave116]

From an earlier abstract (you might do some investigating yourself):

That could take a while! I'll help out;

(Over-)Reaction of the Cometary Plasma to Extreme Solar Wind Conditions
Goetz, C. et al. (2017)
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2017AGUFM.P54D..01G

Abstract of presentation to AGU fall meeting, 2017.

 

[Sol88]

From an earlier abstract (you might do some investigating yourself):

What’s your guesstimate of the current involved, tusenfem?

 

[JeanTate]

What’s your guesstimate of the current involved, tusenfem?

What does the Electric Comet Theory predict the current is, Sol88?

 

[Sol88]

What does the Electric Comet Theory predict the current is, Sol88?

Strong enough to do WORK. Double layers, particle acceleration(including the charged dust}, Coulomb distruption of the rocky surface etc ...

Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 3

Near-surface accelerations inconsistent with the free sublimation of water ice have been found in earlier studies (Agarwal et al. 2016; Kramer&Noack2016),suggesting that the underlying process may be quite common and significantly contribute to the mass-loss in comet 67P.

J. Agarwal, go investigate a bit deeper than a comet is just a melting dusty ice cube.

The comet is charged....

Overwhelming evidence plasma phenomenon DOMINANT the Dirtysnowball.

But still, mainstream just try and get a bigger hammer to smash that round peg into the square hole.

 

[JeanTate]

Let me see if I understand your reply to my question, Sol88.

I’ll quote the part(s) that are an actual reply:

IOW, crickets, nothing, ...

 

[jonesdave116]

Strong enough to do WORK. Double layers, particle acceleration(including the charged dust}, Coulomb distruption of the rocky surface etc ...

Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 3

J. Agarwal, go investigate a bit deeper than a comet is just a melting dusty ice cube.

The comet is charged....

Overwhelming evidence plasma phenomenon DOMINANT the Dirtysnowball.

But still, mainstream just try and get a bigger hammer to smash that round peg into the square hole.

Lol. Stop making things up! Coulomb disruption? Where on Earth do you get this nonsense? As if we didn't know. How much Coulomb disruption was caused to Philae on the surface? Or Rosetta as it approached the surface? Where were the signatures of this Coulomb disruption? Nothing near perihelion within the diamagnetic cavity. Zero magnetic field, remember? What about Philae's measurements of any intrinsic magnetic field for the comet? Zilch (near as makes no difference), remember? No dirty great spikes in the mag data.
And I have no idea why you would bring up the Agarwal paper. That is the one where Alice sees ice in the outburst! Not something you want to be drawing attention to, I would have thought!

 

[tusenfem]

What’s your guesstimate of the current involved, tusenfem?

I am sure the compression of the magnetic field will induce currents (Maxwell-Ampère: curl(H) = J + dD/dt). This current cannot "do work".

 

[Sol88]

I am sure the compression of the magnetic field will induce currents (Maxwell-Ampère: curl(H) = J + dD/dt). This current cannot "do work".

Course not.

But if your above claim is true, then how does the Ulysses data wrt the tail crossing at over 3.8AU from Comet C/1996 B2 (Hyakutake) or indeed Comet C/2006 P1 (McNaught) hold up? Plug those babies into your maths. That’s a bloody long conductor dragging thru the solar wind. No work indeed.


(Over-)Reaction of the Cometary Plasma to Extreme Solar Wind Conditions

Kinda sounds the same basically, the tail and the solar wind were acting as corotating interaction region (CIR) and the solar wind. Whouda thunk it, ay.

I mean, it’s undeniable that there are vast and powerful electric currents in this whole shooting match, it’s just they don’t “do” anything. Classic mainstream

Do you agree it’s a vast interplay of complex plasma phenomena, tusenfem?




Double layers anyone?

 

[tusenfem]

Course not.

please explain

But if your above claim is true, then how does the Ulysses data wrt the tail crossing at over 3.8AU from Comet C/1996 B2 (Hyakutake) or indeed Comet C/2006 P1 (McNaught) hold up? Plug those babies into your maths. That’s a bloody long conductor dragging thru the solar wind. No work indeed.

Put into what math? Do you know how "work" is defined? Do you know what induced currents can and cannot do?
And yes, disturbances in the SW created by the tail of a comet linger, but that has nothing do to with "work". That is dependend on how fast magnetic structures diffuse.

(Over-)Reaction of the Cometary Plasma to Extreme Solar Wind Conditions

Kinda sounds the same basically, the tail and the solar wind were acting as corotating interaction region (CIR) and the solar wind. Whouda thunk it, ay.

ay indeed, showing you have no idea about that the abstract is about if you think it is "the tail and the solar wind acting as a corotational interaction region". Oy Gevalt!

I am already regretting coming back, I might just leave again.

 

[jonesdave116]

I am already regretting coming back, I might just leave again.

But, but, but.............think what you'd be missing!

 

[Reality Check]

The usual lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years

...

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral

Sol88's insane lies about mainstream science confirming his demented cult's electric comet insanity.

Homogeneity of 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko as seen by CONSERT: implication on composition and formation is an ices and dust comet paper where comets formed billions of years ago using the "pebbles" of the early solar system.

Sol88's demented cult's electric comet insanity has comets made of rock being blasted including in the last few thousand years from planets !

 

[Reality Check]

The usual lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years

...

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral

Sol88's usual insanity of derailing from his demented cult's electric comet insiatiy.

 

[Reality Check]

The usual lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years

...

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral

Sol88's usual insanity of physically impossible double layers at comets.
Sol88's new demented fantasy of "Coulomb distruption of the rocky surface" when comets have no rocky surface and not even his demented cult's has "Coulomb distruption" (their insiatiy is electric discharge machining).
Sol88s usual insanity of citing mainstream comet papers debunking his demented cult's electric comet insanity.

Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 3 is an ices and dust comet paper.

Sol88's usual insane lies about the mainstream comet model which is confirmed by the plasma phenomena that has been observed.
Sol88's usual insane lies about comets - no charging of comets has been detected.
What we have are mainstream models of electrostatic charging of comet surfaces during the periods that the solar wind can reach the surface, i.e. before the coma shields the surface. This is a mainstream, "dirty snowball" mechanism to lift some dust and ice grains from the surface of real comets to form some of that coma that shields the surface. This is not Sol88's demented cult's electric comet insanity :eye-popp.i

 

[Reality Check]

The usual lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years

...

The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral

Sol88's usual insanity of emphasizing how insane his demented cult's electric comet insiatiy is ! Over 45 years of deluded fantasies from his cult and they cannot even explain existence of comet tails.
Sol88's usual insanity of asking insanely ignorant questions - over a decade writing about comets and Sol88 has no idea what a comet tail is !
Sol88's usual insanity of lying about mainstream astronomy which knows electric currents exist and what they do.
Sol88's usual deluded fantasies about "vast and powerful electric currents". and physically impossible double layers.
Sol88's usual insanity of not citing or understanding B]mainstream ices and dust comet [/B] papers !
(Over-)Reaction of the Cometary Plasma to Extreme Solar Wind Conditions

The magnetometer onboard ESA's Rosetta orbiter detected its highest magnetic field magnitude of 250nT in July 2015, close to perihelion. This magnitude was an enhancement of a factor of five compared to normal values, which makes this the highest interplanetary magnetic field ever measured. We have examined the solar wind conditions at the time and found that a corotating interaction region (CIR), accompanied by a fast flow is the trigger for this unusual event. Because Rosetta does not have solar wind observations during the comet's active phase, we use ENLIL simulations as well as observations at Earth and Mars to constrain the solar wind parameters at the comet. Using a simple model for the magnetic field pile-up we can trace back the field in the coma to corresponding structures in the CIR. The large field is accompanied by a dramatic increase in electron and ion fluxes and energies. However, the electrons and ions in the field of view are not, as expected, increasing at the same time, instead the electrons follow the magnetic field, while the ion density increase is delayed. This is seen as evidence of the kinetic behaviour of the ions as opposed to a magnetized electron fluid. Combining the information on the plasma, we are able to identify at least three different regions in the plasma that have fundamentally different parameters. This allows us to separate the solar wind influence from the comet's effects on the plasma, a problem that is usually not solvable without a spacecraft monitoring the solar wind at the comet.

(my emphasis added)
ESA's Rosetta orbiter orbited the nucleus of comet 67P. That reading of 250nT in July 2015 was measured in the comet coma. The corotating interaction region (CIR) was a feature of the solar wind. The paper traces the magnetic field in the comet coma back to the CIR.

Nothing to do with Sol88's ignorant delusions about comet tails.

 

[Sol88]

please explain



Put into what math? Do you know how "work" is defined? Do you know what induced currents can and cannot do?
And yes, disturbances in the SW created by the tail of a comet linger, but that has nothing do to with "work". That is dependend on how fast magnetic structures diffuse.



ay indeed, showing you have no idea about that the abstract is about if you think it is "the tail and the solar wind acting as a corotational interaction region". Oy Gevalt!

I am already regretting coming back, I might just leave again.

I for one enjoy having you back and do appreciate you are a busy man.

Thing is nothing new to discuss until the new papers are out.

So take it easy and enjoy the Sun.

 

[tusenfem]

I for one enjoy having you back and do appreciate you are a busy man.

Thing is nothing new to discuss until the new papers are out.

So take it easy and enjoy the Sun.

I'd think you'd have enough to explain, in answer to my last post (not that I expected anything significant). You're not even embarrassed that you don't know what a CIR is?

That seems to be the standard answer for all EU/ES/EC proponents: "we have to wait until the next papers come out." Never does any such person say: "Maybe if I download the data and do some analysis, I might try to show that my ideas have some merit."