Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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Nessie said:
Alternatives to the back stop -

- hard border between NI and Eire
- remove Eire from the customs union
- move the backstop to the English Channel and treat goods from Eire as exempted from tariffs.
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1. Not wanted
2. Not a chance
3. Sell that to the DUP.

Also "Éire" as the name of the state is obsolete.
 
ceptimus said:
The EU want the border to stay open.

The Irish (north and south) want the border to stay open.

The British want the border to stay open. The real question then is: who on earth is going to close the border, and why?

I suppose you think the EU will reluctantly close the border to preserve the purity of their market, even though they don't really want to, and it will be bitterly opposed by the Irish?

When the overwhelming majority of people want something to happen, why would they then prevent it from happening? That really would be politics gone mad.

If "the rules" mean that you can't do what everyone wants, then it's time to change the rules: these are rules invented by politicians - they're not laws of physics.
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The British Government wants the border to stay open, but sets preconditions that mean it can't without breaking some of the British red lines.

The British Government claims to want an open border except where they want it to be closed. A sort of Schrodinger's boarder.

Johnson wants a technological solution, but hasn't defined what it is that he thinks he wants that would solve the issue.

There is no technical solution that can deliver a border that is open to those with legitimate reasons to cross the border, whilst managing to be closed to those same people if their reasons for crossing the border are not legitimate on that occasion.

And if you then are aiming to make enable free movement at the designated crossing points, whilst preventing movement outside these points, that is going to involve either a hard border, and/or a lot of restriction of civil liberties on both sides of the border.

And all to deliver something that the majority no longer want, and which will cause massive damage to the UK, including deaths.

"The tree of English Exceptionalism needs periodic watering with the blood of cancer patients" doesn't seem an attractive slogan to me.
 
The next person who refers to the country as Éire is going to get a slap, they really are.

The name of the country in English is Ireland.
The name of the country in Irish is Éire.

As this is an English-language forum, can we please stick to the English name?


As a side note, today I received both my new passport - far prettier than the old one - and my first ever passport card, which is a lovely little thing that will live in my wallet for the next five years.
 
malbui said:
The next person who refers to the country as Éire is going to get a slap, they really are.

The name of the country in English is Ireland.
The name of the country in Irish is Éire.

As this is an English-language forum, can we please stick to the English name?


As a side note, today I received both my new passport - far prettier than the old one - and my first ever passport card, which is a lovely little thing that will live in my wallet for the next five years.
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tá:)

Your passport is from which country?
 
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Again I am an outsider but, from my perspective in the USA, just the discussions of the backspot by the UK leadership would royally piss me off if I was a citizen of the Irish Republic.
 
malbui said:
The next person who refers to the country as Éire is going to get a slap, they really are.

The name of the country in English is Ireland.
The name of the country in Irish is Éire.

As this is an English-language forum, can we please stick to the English name?


As a side note, today I received both my new passport - far prettier than the old one - and my first ever passport card, which is a lovely little thing that will live in my wallet for the next five years.
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When someone says (or types) "Éire" does your word-concept system not work or is this just you being a pretentious boor?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
It's like calling Scotland Alba
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It's like calling Scotland Alba in that a discussion where the term has been used repeatedly and in context enough to understand what is meant by that term is in no way advanced by insisting "this is an English-language forum."

I mean the worst possible outcome is someone who doesn't know might have to ask.

ETA: There's also the historical-social issue. Maybe in a discussion about old bad feelings being dredged up, it's not the brightest idea to insist that using the name the place calls itself is unwelcome.
 
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Boris is seeking legal advice for a plan to prorogued Parliament prior to the Brexit deadline. A tactic that worked wonderfully on Australia recently. Is there a danger that Parliament might not vote the way you want? Just shut it down. Democracy on action.
 
a_unique_person said:
Boris is seeking legal advice for a plan to prorogued Parliament prior to the Brexit deadline. A tactic that worked wonderfully on Australia recently. Is there a danger that Parliament might not vote the way you want? Just shut it down. Democracy on action.
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The power to direct the prorogation of an unwilling parliament sounds like something that would only be there for the prime minister to avoid something parliament was doing. Is there another explanation for why it is there?
 
Donald Trump: UK is losing the 'anchor round its ankle'

President Trump has promised a "very big trade deal" with the UK, saying its departure from the EU will be like losing "an anchor round the ankle".

Mr Trump was speaking after a breakfast meeting with Mr Johnson at the G7 summit in Biarritz in France.

But Mr Johnson said the US must open up its markets if a post-Brexit trade deal is to be agreed.

"I don't think we sell a single joint of British lamb in the United States, we don't sell any beef," the PM said.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49462613
 
BobTheCoward said:
The power to direct the prorogation of an unwilling parliament sounds like something that would only be there for the prime minister to avoid something parliament was doing. Is there another explanation for why it is there?
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it is there because the monarch wanted it to be there, and it is still enacted as a royal ceremony. See https://www.parliament.uk/about/liv...ceremonies/overview/prorogation1/prorogation/
The ceremony today begins with an announcement, on behalf of the Queen, read in the House of Lords by the Leader of the House. The announcement states, ‘My Lords, it not being convenient for Her Majesty personally to be present here this day, she has been pleased to cause a Commission under the Great Seal to be prepared for proroguing this present Parliament.’

A Royal Commission consisting of five Peers, all Privy Councillors, appointed by the Queen enter the Chamber, and instruct Black Rod to summon the House of Commons, which he does.​
 
Giordano said:
Again I am an outsider but, from my perspective in the USA, just the discussions of the backspot by the UK leadership would royally piss me off if I was a citizen of the Irish Republic.
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The citizens of the ROI are sadly used to the British doing things to their detriment.

The most obvious sign of the last economic depression in the ROI was all the half built and empty houses, as loans for building and buying dried up. That has largely gone and it must be infuriating that the recovery is again being threatened by potential restrictions and increased cost in trade.
 
Meanwhile, a guaranteed way to cause trouble...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...rthern-ireland-border-backstop-british-police

"BRITISH POLICE officers could be deployed from English forces to Northern Ireland in the event of a no deal Brexit to patrol the border in case of a “highly possible” attack."

It has also been reported in other newspapers (but behind paywalls) that the British police will patrol the border. I find that hard to believe. They may be used to assist PSNI, as has happened before. But putting some British cops at the border doing checks, how provocative is that!?!
 
Craig B said:
it is there because the monarch wanted it to be there, and it is still enacted as a royal ceremony. See https://www.parliament.uk/about/liv...ceremonies/overview/prorogation1/prorogation/
The ceremony today begins with an announcement, on behalf of the Queen, read in the House of Lords by the Leader of the House. The announcement states, ‘My Lords, it not being convenient for Her Majesty personally to be present here this day, she has been pleased to cause a Commission under the Great Seal to be prepared for proroguing this present Parliament.’

A Royal Commission consisting of five Peers, all Privy Councillors, appointed by the Queen enter the Chamber, and instruct Black Rod to summon the House of Commons, which he does.​
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That still doesn't answer why parliament allows the prime minister to request it even when it is against parliament's will.
 
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