Stand Your Ground Florida, Stand Your Ground

[P.J. Denyer]

Not clear on what a state school is in Great Britain. Does that mean a military academy? In the US, state school would sound like a public school, where all members of the public may attend, and no student would currently handle firearms with teachers.

State School: Funded from taxes, free at point of use. Accounts for about 90%+ of UK pupils

Public School: (UK usage) Privately owned school where pupils pay to attend, accounts for about 7% of pupils (and about 52% of the House of Commons). Also referred to as Private Schools (yes, in the UK Public School and Private School means the same thing..)

 

[Thermal]

State School: Funded from taxes, free at point of use. Accounts for about 90%+ of UK pupils

Public School: (UK usage) Privately owned school where pupils pay to attend, accounts for about 7% of pupils (and about 52% of the House of Commons). Also referred to as Private Schools (yes, in the UK Public School and Private School means the same thing..)

Thanks for that. I was reading an essay by George Orwell recently, where he talked about his school years. It seemed like he was using 'public school' the way an American would use 'private'. In context I assumed that they were equivalent, but I could not rule out the possibilities that I was stupid or drunk. Thanks for the proper clarification.

 

[jimbob]

Thanks for that. I was reading an essay by George Orwell recently, where he talked about his school years. It seemed like he was using 'public school' the way an American would use 'private'. In context I assumed that they were equivalent, but I could not rule out the possibilities that I was stupid or drunk. Thanks for the proper clarification.

It does make sense in the historical context. I have some idea because my school is owned by a 12th Century company that also owns the local public school (i.e. private school - current termly fees of £10k for day pupils or £13k for borders, so pretty expensive - especially when all other considerations are included).

The truly wealthy (aristocracy) would have had tutors so in the 16th Century, the company founded a school for the public - i.e. the sons (yes) of merchants and the incipient middle classes.

By the 19th Century, the aristocracy were sending their kids to the public schools and the local public school became out of reach of the sort of people their initial founders had intended, so the company started several grammar schools including the one I attended, and they still own it - even though it's state-funded.

Go figure.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Thanks for that. I was reading an essay by George Orwell recently, where he talked about his school years. It seemed like he was using 'public school' the way an American would use 'private'. In context I assumed that they were equivalent, but I could not rule out the possibilities that I was stupid or drunk. Thanks for the proper clarification.

It's one of those historical anacronisms that without the proper background (kindly and ably provided by Jimbob) make no sense whatsoever.

 

[Thermal]

It does make sense in the historical context. I have some idea because my school is owned by a 12th Century company that also owns the local public school (i.e. private school - current termly fees of £10k for day pupils or £13k for borders, so pretty expensive - especially when all other considerations are included).

The truly wealthy (aristocracy) would have had tutors so in the 16th Century, the company founded a school for the public - i.e. the sons (yes) of merchants and the incipient middle classes.

By the 19th Century, the aristocracy were sending their kids to the public schools and the local public school became out of reach of the sort of people their initial founders had intended, so the company started several grammar schools including the one I attended, and they still own it - even though it's state-funded.

Go figure.

You know, I would have probably never looked into that if you hadn't explained it, and it's really interesting, how the British educational system evolved. Thanks for that.

 

[Nessie]

Thanks for that. I was reading an essay by George Orwell recently, where he talked about his school years. It seemed like he was using 'public school' the way an American would use 'private'. In context I assumed that they were equivalent, but I could not rule out the possibilities that I was stupid or drunk. Thanks for the proper clarification.

The Scottish and Northern Irish fee paying schools tend to be called private, the English and Welsh public. NI still has a grammar school system and that can involve some payments by parents.

 

[Thermal]

The Scottish and Northern Irish fee paying schools tend to be called private, the English and Welsh public. NI still has a grammar school system and that can involve some payments by parents.

What would 'grammar school' mean in the UK? Not an expression we use on this side of the pond. We might say grammar or elementary school to informally indicate the lowest grades.

 

[Nessie]

What would 'grammar school' mean in the UK? Not an expression we use on this side of the pond. We might say grammar or elementary school to informally indicate the lowest grades.

The grammar system meant that at the end of primary school (around 11 years old) there would be series of tests and those who are more intelligent and pass the tests go to the grammar school. The rest go to the state school. The grammar school is state funded, like the state school, but some also ask for additional fees from the parents as the children who make it there tend to be from better off families.

Where there is no grammar system, all the children go to the comprehensive school. Some Scottish comprehensive schools are called "Grammar", but that is just a hangover from the old days, the grammar system was scrapped in the 1970s.

 

[Planigale]

The grammar system meant that at the end of primary school (around 11 years old) there would be series of tests and those who are more intelligent and pass the tests go to the grammar school. The rest go to the state school. The grammar school is state funded, like the state school, but some also ask for additional fees from the parents as the children who make it there tend to be from better off families.

Where there is no grammar system, all the children go to the comprehensive school. Some Scottish comprehensive schools are called "Grammar", but that is just a hangover from the old days, the grammar system was scrapped in the 1970s.

In a bit more detail there were two 'classes' of grammar schools. The state (actually local authority) system had grammar schools for those who passed an exam and secondary modern (technical schools) for those who did not. The grammar schools were modelled on the public school system one played rugby and learnt Latin +/- Greek. At a secondary modern soccer was played and more practical subjects were studied. (Girls schools were similar, though sports were not such a dichotomy.)

There was a second class of grammar schools, usually belonging to a charitable foundation sometimes religious and sometimes others (well known examples in England would be e.g. Merchant Taylor's school, Haberdasher's) they would set their own exams, school fees would be paid for those who passed on a means tested basis - direct grant schools; some are now entirely free and funded by the state some moved in the opposite direction and are entirely private. An example of the latter is King Edward VI School that was a major route to success for academic girls from Birmingham when it was direct grant, now it has become more exclusive. Many women in STEM from Birmingham would have come from KE6, it was a major feeder for working class girls to Oxbridge. I am sure it is still a great school, but more exclusive. There are scholarships, but since they are from the school funds they are more restricted than they used to be. I went to a similar school in Yorkshire. These would be contiguous with 'Public' schools. Someone who attended a 'grammar' school could have attended a state school or a 'minor' public school.

There are also state boarding schools.

 

[jimbob]

In a bit more detail there were two 'classes' of grammar schools. The state (actually local authority) system had grammar schools for those who passed an exam and secondary modern (technical schools) for those who did not. The grammar schools were modelled on the public school system one played rugby and learnt Latin +/- Greek. At a secondary modern soccer was played and more practical subjects were studied. (Girls schools were similar, though sports were not such a dichotomy.)

There was a second class of grammar schools, usually belonging to a charitable foundation sometimes religious and sometimes others (well known examples in England would be e.g. Merchant Taylor's school, Haberdasher's) they would set their own exams, school fees would be paid for those who passed on a means tested basis - direct grant schools; some are now entirely free and funded by the state some moved in the opposite direction and are entirely private. An example of the latter is King Edward VI School that was a major route to success for academic girls from Birmingham when it was direct grant, now it has become more exclusive. Many women in STEM from Birmingham would have come from KE6, it was a major feeder for working class girls to Oxbridge. I am sure it is still a great school, but more exclusive. There are scholarships, but since they are from the school funds they are more restricted than they used to be. I went to a similar school in Yorkshire. These would be contiguous with 'Public' schools. Someone who attended a 'grammar' school could have attended a state school or a 'minor' public school.

There are also state boarding schools.

And my old school sat in between the two - being owned by the Worshipful Company of Skinners, but funded by the state, whilst always retaining independence (possibly due to its founding royal charter).

Looking up its history as a result of this thread, I see it banned football in 1925.

Rugby Union, is a good game, though, so I liked that aspect.

 

[Darat]

I think you summed up well, posh schools play rugby union, which is for softies, comprehensives played proper rugby - rugby league.

 

[novaphile]

I think you summed up well, posh schools play rugby union, which is for softies, comprehensives played proper rugby - rugby league.

And in Australia we played "British Bulldog"

Pretty much like Mad Max beyond thunderdome, but with much larger teams.

Last man standing wins.

 

[Ranb]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/22/us/florida-trial-michael-drejka/index.html

Drejka's attorneys are no longer arguing that he should be immune to prosecution because of "stand your ground," but Drejka mentioned the law at the end of his interview with police.

Ranb

 

[Mongrel]

And in Australia we played "British Bulldog"

Pretty much like Mad Max beyond thunderdome, but with much larger teams.

Last man standing wins.

I still remember the moment I broke my collarbone playing that

 

[Checkmite]

In a rare victory for sanity, a jury has found Micheal Drejka guilty of manslaughter.

 

[Meadmaker]

Guilty of manslaughter.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/23/us/florida-trial-michael-drejka/index.html

 

[PhantomWolf]

I guess you take what you can get, but I think they were lenient charging with Manslaughter. Good result though.

 

[Craig4]

I guess you take what you can get, but I think they were lenient charging with Manslaughter. Good result though.

I agree but it's better than another Florida jury declaring open season on black people again.

 

[crescent]

I guess you take what you can get, but I think they were lenient charging with Manslaughter. Good result though.

That's better than overcharging such that the jury ends up hung or acquitting.

I get the impression that some of the other high profile shooting and some of the police who have been prosecuted were acquitted because they were overcharged in states that don't allow juries to convict of lesser offenses. These things can be very hard to get through juries, I'm pretty happy they could get this one to stick.

 

[Nessie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49459855

"Drejka faces up to 30 years in prison and will be sentenced in October."

How likely is that? Also;

"Drejka's lawyer, John Trevena, said his client would probably appeal against the verdict, which he called "a mystery".

So this will drag on for a long time yet.