What we mean when we talk about racism

[alfaniner]

When I was a very young child and thought that all black people were cannibals (primarily due to a stupid Disney vinyl record), I was racist.

What Disney record was that? The only references I've ever heard about were Song of the South and the crows in Dumbo.

 

[Minoosh]

Yes, that's racism.

I agree that it is racism, but in this case the difference isn't skin color. I mean, it might be; maybe some groups are lighter than others, but it the Tutsi/Hutu thing the killers checked ID cards to find out who to massacre, so they obviously couldn't tell just by looking.

So how finely can you grind ethnic animus before the whole concept of "race" turns into something else?

In Hispaniola the Parsley Massacre hinged on how people pronounced the Spanish word for "parsley" (perejil). The linguistic difference was a shibboleth, a cool word I didn't know the meaning of until today. But the massacre was clearly racially motivated; the Dominicans looked down on Haitians as being "of pure African" race. But within Africa there are probably hundreds of ethnic groups; "pure African" is as meaningless as "pure Asian."

The thing I always wonder about racial separatists - how many categories would they divide people into?

 

[TofuFighter]

The Racism Hoax is the new focus of the New York Times after their Russia Hoax went belly up. Same target of course, just new lies and propaganda.

Of course we most likely won't hear from you again, but please define "The Racism Hoax" for us, as you understand it.

 

[wareyin]

Why don't you learn to read for comprehension instead of making up stuff?

The claim made in the media was that anybody who booed Goodes was a racist. It wasn't "anybody who booed Goodes and yelled out racial insults" was a racist.

Oh, is that the claim now? It certainly wasn't your original claim, nor was it claimed anywhere in the limited reading I did on the subject. Can you support that claim, for instance with quotes saying what you claim was said? I'm a bit skeptical, given your whining that nobody called 'the guy known for his anti-racism activism' a racist, but I'll certainly read it.

 

[wareyin]

"Virtually always?" Please. I've been to numerous sporting events all over the country and I have never heard a minority player being heckled with racial insults. Does it happen? I'm sure it does because there are ******** in the world. But such a gross exaggeration doesn't do your argument any favors.

How often have you heard a minority player heckled and booed without the use of racial insults?

 

[psionl0]

Oh, is that the claim now? It certainly wasn't your original claim, nor was it claimed anywhere in the limited reading I did on the subject.

Are you insane? That was ALWAYS what I said.

Can you support that claim, for instance with quotes saying what you claim was said? I'm a bit skeptical, given your whining that nobody called 'the guy known for his anti-racism activism' a racist, but I'll certainly read it.

How can we read something that wasn't written?

 

[Matthew Best]

Here's the original post about Goode.

Aboriginal AFL player Adam Goode had a way of doing outrageous things on the football field such as doing a "war" dance and pretending to throw spears at the crowd when he kicked a goal. In one infamous incident, he singled out a 13 year old female spectator for yelling out "monkey" (an offensive term for Aboriginals) when his team ran out on to the field.

Needless to say, these actions didn't make him very popular with the spectators who booed him every time he touched the football. Ultimately this hostility from the crowds saw him retire from AFL football.

In the ensuing public discussions, Goode was never described as "racist" (though many had other nasty words to describe him). However, the acts of booing saw the crowds constantly labeled as "racist".

Never having heard of him before I was a bit confused. I can't see why he ought to have been accused of being racist, when you haven't described any racist behaviour that he is supposed to have done. In fact, the only racist behaviour here is the girl who called him a "monkey".

 

[psionl0]

In fact, the only racist behaviour here is the girl who called him a "monkey".

Yes and even then, there is no reason to believe that the young girl even knew that the term was offensive.

However, that was all background. The main point was that the reaction to the crowds booing was an illustration of what theprestige claimed was a definition of racism?

- Racist meaning "you say you're not racist, but you're disagreeing with a person of color different from yours, so obviously you're a big ******* racist."

 

[Matthew Best]

Yes and even then, there is no reason to believe that the young girl even knew that the term was offensive.

I don't follow - if she didn't intend to offend him with the term, why did she even shout at all?

 

[JoeMorgue]

I don't follow - if she didn't intend to offend him with the term, why did she even shout at all?

What you don't just start shouting whatever random word you don't understand that people around you are shouting at some other person?

Weirdo.

 

[xjx388]

How often have you heard a minority player heckled and booed without the use of racial insults?

Uh let's see . . .

Every baseball game at Fenway; I've been to about 20 or so. Almost every opposing player gets an earful, some of it colorful and amusing. IIRC, there have been a few minorities on opposing teams from time to time; but, never have I heard the N-Word being used or any other racial epitaph.

As a big fan of the Vegas Golden Knights, I've seen them play away games in Dallas, Boston and Atlanta. Malcom Subban was their goalie for at least a couple of those and he is one of the few black players in the NHL along with his two brothers. His brother PK got some racial heat at times, especially on social media from Bruins fans after PK scored the game winning goal at a playoff game. Yet I heard not one racially charged taunt at any of those games.

I've been to countless San Antonio Spurs, Miami Dolphins and San Diego Padres games all over the country. I share season tickets with a cousin in Houston for the Astros. I've visited many many MLB stadiums on my quest to visit them all. I'm a huge live sports fan. If I'm in a city and there is a professional sports event happening, I'm there. Not once have I heard a racial taunt directed at a player on the field/court/ice. I've definitely heard some colorful taunts. I've heard some taunts about player's wives and mothers. I've witnessed some really heated taunting between players and fans at a minor league hockey game. I've even heard one guy at Fenway taunt one of their own players for being a worthless bum! But not one racially charged taunt.

It happens and that is a terrible thing, but it isn't "virtually always." Such exaggerations diminish your argument.

 

[jimbob]

In fact, the only racist behaviour here is the girl who called him a "monkey".

Yes and even then, there is no reason to believe that the young girl even knew that the term was offensive.

However, that was all background. The main point was that the reaction to the crowds booing was an illustration of what theprestige claimed was a definition of racism?

- Racist meaning "you say you're not racist, but you're disagreeing with a person of color different from yours, so obviously you're a big ******* racist."

The highlighted part?

Really?

When someone makes racist chants at a black person, then in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, it's safe to assume that racism was behind it.

 

[xjx388]

The highlighted part?

Really?

When someone makes racist chants at a black person, then in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, it's safe to assume that racism was behind it.

Racism is behind it, no doubt. The question is whether or not the 13 year old girl really understood that. If she was just following the crowd, chanting what they were chanting without grasping the racially charged elements then her particular intentions may have just been to heckle an opposing player. She's a kid even tweens/teens can be surprisingly naive.

 

[xjx388]

All this monkey talk reminds of the Howard Cosell incident. . . I seriously doubt Cosell was racist given all his work supporting black athletes. That's the problem when innocuous words are cast as racial insults -every use of the innocuous word towards a minority does not default to racist intent but it's so easy to twist it that way.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Racism is behind it, no doubt. The question is whether or not the 13 year old girl really understood that.

No it goddamn it isn't.

"I'm not racist I'm just yelling words I don't know the meaning of at this minority person because everybody else around me is" is not where we're gonna land.

 

[JoeMorgue]

All this monkey talk reminds of the Howard Cosell incident. . . I seriously doubt Cosell was racist given all his work supporting black athletes. That's the problem when innocuous words are cast as racial insults -every use of the innocuous word towards a minority does not default to racist intent but it's so easy to twist it that way.

So we're just never going to deal with racism as long as some example of some grey area or possibly over reached example from 50 years ago can be trotted out are we.

Every 1 in 1000 young black men in this country can expect to die at the hands of the police but in 1972 the Left was a little too harsh on on a Sports Caster for using the term monkey so it all evens out.

 

[Distracted1]

No it goddamn it isn't.

"I'm not racist I'm just yelling words I don't know the meaning of at this minority person because everybody else around me is" is not where we're gonna land.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMSMk1BeslA

 

[xjx388]

No it goddamn it isn't.

Oooo . . . cussing! The hallmark of every good argument!

"I'm not racist I'm just yelling words I don't know the meaning of at this minority person because everybody else around me is" is not where we're gonna land.

She's a kid. Kid's can be naive and they tend to mimic the adults around them. I'm not saying she for sure didn't know, only that it's not that slam dunk an assumption. Monkey is not a bad word.

So we're just never going to deal with racism as long as some example of some grey area or possibly over reached example from 50 years ago can be trotted out are we.

Every 1 in 1000 young black men in this country can expect to die at the hands of the police but in 1972 the Left was a little too harsh on on a Sports Caster for using the term monkey so it all evens out.

Don't know how you arrived at all that from my post. All I was pointing out is that when you turn innocuous words like monkey into racial slurs, anything can sound racist. Howard Cosell was a good example of someone who was not racist who had no racist intent but his words got twisted. The default assumption is racism and I think that's wrong-headed.

I want to deal with racism but how? That's the golden question.

 

[Dave Rogers]

If she was just following the crowd, chanting what they were chanting without grasping the racially charged elements then her particular intentions may have just been to heckle an opposing player.

So if the crowd is chanting "Monkey" at an Aboriginal player, that means there isn't any racist abuse going on?

Dave

 

[xjx388]

So if the crowd is chanting "Monkey" at an Aboriginal player, that means there isn't any racist abuse going on?

Dave

??? I did say that it was obviously racist. There was indeed racially-motivated taunting going on. The only point I'm making is that the 13 YO girl that was singled out may not have been consciously racist being that she is a child.