Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

[Elagabalus]

It is reported (by the DailyFail) that two people accompanying Greta and her father on the boat (one being Monaco "royalty" who finances the whole thing) will fly back to Europe while two other people are flying to the US to steer the boat back to Monaco. Which would make Greta cry about how her actions are not being thought through if the rag is correct. If not, the wickedness of that outlet would make Greta cry.

Pretty thin gruel.


Did Vlad tell you that Greta's not cool?

 

[Childlike Empress]

How is that "abusing children" as you previously claimed?

I did not claim that "that" is abusing children. You extracted "that" from my much broader statement.

Good on you, lionking.

 

[Matthew Best]

What the people on the boat do is nothing to do with Greta. She is just hitching a lift on a trip that was going to take place anyway, so she is saving carbon by not flying, no matter what everyone else who has to do with the boat does. It's not her boat and she is not in control of how everyone who uses the boat, sails the boat, or is a passenger in the boat in future travels in the future.

 

[jimbob]

I did not claim that "that" is abusing children. You extracted "that" from my much broader statement.

Good on you, lionking.

Ah, in which case, I'm also against abusing children,.

I'm also against murder and littering.

It doesn't have anything to do with the thread, but apparently, nor did your statement about abusing children , although from the context of the thread, it certainly implied it.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I deleted a much harder sentence before I posted the above. Abusing children for propaganda is among the most infuriating things to me, no matter how "good" the cause is in the eye of the propagandist. Be it the "they threw the babies out of the incubators" daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US in the early 90s, be it Bana Alabed, Alan Kurdi, Omran Daqneesh or Greta Thunberg. Despicable.

Abuse? What sort of boat is she on, a row boat?

She's on a boat that if what the DailyFail reports is correct is on a trip that will be twice as hurtful to the environment than if she and daddy would have just taken a flight to NYC.

How is that "abusing children" as you previously claimed?

I did not claim that "that" is abusing children. You extracted "that" from my much broader statement.

I guess I lost the thread here, then.

How is Greta being abused for propaganda as you claim in the first post I quote above?

 

[Childlike Empress]

I guess I lost the thread here, then.

How is Greta being abused for propaganda as you claim in the first post I quote above?

If you understand that propaganda doesn't have to be based on lies, the answer is rather obvious. Pope, Princes, Parliaments.

 

[Checkmite]

I really don't understand why it's just impossible to believe that a 16-year-old girl might care enough about climate change to be motivated to do something about it unless she was manipulated into feeling that way by unscrupulous adults; and nor do I see why adults accommodating that expressed ambition if they happen to agree with it constitutes "abuse".

Did the adults who let this boy start his lemonade stand "abuse" him thereby?

When he was 5, Oliver got inspired to sell lemonade and told his parents he would use proceeds for his college fund, officials said. They told him not to worry about college. Oliver then decided he wanted to donate to the money to St. Jude after learning about it while watching television with his grandmother, officials said.

In Oliver’s first summer selling lemonade, he made $861.25, officials said. This summer, he has made the most money ever for the children’s hospital, raking in more than $3,725, which put him over the $10,000 mark, officials said.

 

[Childlike Empress]

^you are beating up a strawman. Oliver hasn't met the Pope, spoken at various parliaments and crossed the ocean on a Monaco royal's high-tech boat.

Some people seem to be too thin-skinned to even tolerate any criticism of the phenomenon, not the girl. Is that necessary?

 

[Childlike Empress]

btw I just read that it has been one (1) year yesterday, August 20th 2018, that Greta Thunberg for the first time refused to go to school on Friday. Everybody who isn't interested in the story behind the story where she met Pope. Princes and Parliaments in that year is in my opinion a curiously incurious person.

 

[theprestige]

Oh for goodness sake. Must everyone walk bare feet to meetings and protests before they can be treated seriously?

Greta's trying to make a serious point with boat travel in place of plane travel. It's hard to take her seriously when this arrangement results in more plane travel than if she'd simply traveled by plane herself.

 

[EHocking]

I'm surprised no one has had a go at her for the fact that 2 boat crew members have to be flown, FLOWN , out to the US to help sail the boat back to EU.

And this being ISF, then quibble for 3 pages about the actual carbon footprint reduction measures they funded to compensate for the flight.

It is reported (by the DailyFail) that two people accompanying Greta and her father on the boat (one being Monaco "royalty" who finances the whole thing) will fly back to Europe while two other people are flying to the US to steer the boat back to Monaco. Which would make Greta cry about how her actions are not being thought through if the rag is correct. If not, the wickedness of that outlet would make Greta cry.

LOL, just out of interest: You calculated the carbon footprint of the cruises and other travels you told us about and donated the equivalent to some causes? If so, that is in some way adorable.

Nailed it!

 

[Checkmite]

^you are beating up a strawman. Oliver hasn't met the Pope, spoken at various parliaments and crossed the ocean on a Monaco royal's high-tech boat.

What difference does it make? Allowing a teenager to speak at a parliament for instance is "abuse" how, exactly?

 

[Matthew Best]

Greta's trying to make a serious point with boat travel in place of plane travel. It's hard to take her seriously when this arrangement results in more plane travel than if she'd simply traveled by plane herself.

But has it resulted in more plane travel than if she'd simply traveled by plane? I don't think that has been demonstrated.

 

[3point14]

Oh for goodness sake. Must everyone walk bare feet to meetings and protests before they can be treated seriously?

It's a weird sort of a gotcha.

People who don't like the shape the world is and want to change it still have to live in it.

Those who (for whatever reason, probably someone's paying them) don't like the message (that we're killing the planet) then observe protesters living in the real world (because there's literally no option) and cry "Look - Hypocrite - you're functioning in the real world."

That those who level this weird accusation think it's some sort of trump card just shows how shallow their thinking is.

 

[theprestige]

But has it resulted in more plane travel than if she'd simply traveled by plane? I don't think that has been demonstrated.

Good point. I misread the original report. It looks ilke the same amount of flying either way:

Greta and her father fly out and fly back - 4 flights.

Monaco guy and his retainer sail out and fly back, alternate boat crew fly out and sail back - 4 flights.

So it's basically an empty gesture, but not actually harmful.

 

[Matthew Best]

Good point. I misread the original report. It looks ilke the same amount of flying either way:

Greta and her father fly out and fly back - 4 flights.

Monaco guy and his retainer sail out and fly back, alternate boat crew fly out and sail back - 4 flights.

So it's basically an empty gesture, but not actually harmful.

Wait - how do you know that "Monaco guy and his retainer sail out and fly back, alternate boat crew fly out and sail back - 4 flights" wasn't going to happen anyway?

 

[theprestige]

Wait - how do you know that "Monaco guy and his retainer sail out and fly back, alternate boat crew fly out and sail back - 4 flights" wasn't going to happen anyway?

She's just hitching a ride on a boat that was going to make the trip already? Okay, sure. That's pretty responsible, I guess.

Hopefully she spends the entire trip lecturing Monaco guy on the wastefulness of booking four flights when he's got a perfectly good sailboat.

I dunno. No matter how you look at it, it seems like an empty gesture. Yes, she's maybe saving a couple plane trips... By tagging along with one of the world's elites, on his luxury toy, which he happily disregards whenever air travel is more convenient. Everything about the trip except her passage itself is pure consumption. It would have made more sense for her to book passage on a working freighter, that at least produces something of value in exchange for its emissions.

What's the message Thunberg is trying to send here? Air travel is bad? Not if you're European royalty, apparently. If a prince offers you a boat ride, take it?

 

[Matthew Best]

So she's saved the carbon from four intercontinental flights and you're still complaining?

I guess there's no pleasing some people.

 

[Wayward son]

She's just hitching a ride on a boat that was going to make the trip already? Okay, sure. That's pretty responsible, I guess.

Except the boat wasn't going to make the trip already.

As the origin link, which I assume Matthew Best never bothered to read, made clear: "'We added the trip to New York City at very short notice, and as a result two people will need to fly over to the US in order to bring the boat back,' a Team Malizia spokeswoman told the Times."

She reduced the number of trips her father and her had to take by 4 (trips that were not necessary to make in the first place), and increased the number of trips the crew had to make by 4.

 

[uke2se]

Except the boat wasn't going to make the trip already.

As the origin link, which I assume Matthew Best never bothered to read, made clear: "'We added the trip to New York City at very short notice, and as a result two people will need to fly over to the US in order to bring the boat back,' a Team Malizia spokeswoman told the Times."

She reduced the number of trips her father and her had to take by 4 (trips that were not necessary to make in the first place), and increased the number of trips the crew had to make by 4.

Well then, that's perfect. There's the excuse you need to ignore her.

Problem is, right wingers can't ignore her, because she's still a massive problem for them.