• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Jeffrey Epstein arrested for child sex trafficking

"Hey let's hand over information they can't possibly comprehend to one of the absolute worst fandom on the internet so they can craft dangerous conspiracy theories out of their own misunderstanding of it for the next decade"
 
Delphic Oracle said:
I'm comparing the result of the autopsy to the variables present in the cell.
Click to expand...

Yes but you don't have a full picture of the variables present in the cell; you have a decidedly incomplete list of unofficially-sourced rumors which has changed over time.

Delphic Oracle said:
Furthermore, if the autopsy is accurate, that means we need to make changes to prisoner accommodations because people shouldn't be able to break their neck like that in custody.
Click to expand...

This kind of death is not possible when a prisoner is actually on suicide watch. But true suicide watch is an extremely invasive and humiliating set of policies, and in form is antithetical to a prisoner's human rights as we understand them, which is why it is not something they're assigned to unless there's a highly compelling reason to do so, and also why a suspect's lawyers will always fight - as Epstein's did - to get their clients removed from that status if the client isn't self-declaring a suicidal tendency.
 
Checkmite said:
Yes but you don't have a full picture of the variables present in the cell; you have a decidedly incomplete list of unofficially-sourced rumors which has changed over time.
Click to expand...

In that case if you're not contributing to a more complete understanding, stop wasting my time with paternalistic lecturing.

I'm moving on, now.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
I'm comparing the result of the autopsy to the variables present in the cell.

Furthermore, if the autopsy is accurate, that means we need to make changes to prisoner accommodations because people shouldn't be able to break their neck like that in custody.

Perhaps what I'm zeroing in on isn't what you think I'm trying to zero in on?
Click to expand...

Well go on then. Call the federal bureau of prisons and ask them what they have done to rectify the situation with the lethal beds. Peoples lives might be at stake.
 
JoeMorgue said:
"Hey let's hand over information they can't possibly comprehend to one of the absolute worst fandom on the internet so they can craft dangerous conspiracy theories out of their own misunderstanding of it for the next decade"
Click to expand...

Let's not forget that personal dignity and privacy applies to dead people too. I don't think it is justified to publicly disclose anymore information than necessary. Certainly not just because tinfoil hat wearing armchair-coroners somehow have become convinced there's a cover up of a murder.
 
Arcade22 said:
Well go on then. Call the federal bureau of prisons and ask them what they have done to rectify the situation with the lethal beds. Peoples lives might be at stake.
Click to expand...

I've called the chair and vice chair of the judiciary committee, the chair and vice chair of the crime, terrorism, and homeland security subcommittee, and the chair of the oversight committee and made my desire for a thorough review to take place.

Making snide comments about what I should do doesn't advance the discussion.

Anyone else want to waste bandwidth on immature commentary today?
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-jail-officers.html

The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep, failed to check on him for about three hours and falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter.
Click to expand...

He could have had a cellmate who killed him, and the faked records just say he was alone.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
I've called the chair and vice chair of the judiciary committee, the chair and vice chair of the crime, terrorism, and homeland security subcommittee, and the chair of the oversight committee and made my desire for a thorough review to take place.

Making snide comments about what I should do doesn't advance the discussion.

Anyone else want to waste bandwidth on immature commentary today?
Click to expand...

Why didn't you call before this happened? There was plenty to investigate.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Some vertebrae were also broken, all of which suggests he jumped off something to get a good fall.
Click to expand...
Couldn't that depend on how the bones were broken? My thought is that sometimes in death throes, a body could convulse or spasm and therefore produce what may look like injuries which were not self-sustained. When I took forensic classes years ago, I seem to remember crime scene photos which demonstrated similar occurrences.

IOW, in this instance, could he not have tied a sheet to a pipe under the sink or to a sink faucet and suffocate and then, near death, convulse and twist his head or neck or perhaps jerk back hard enough to break vertebrae? Something like that?

I'm just raising a possibility here; I have no thought as to true murder or suicide.
 
The Norseman said:
IOW, in this instance, could he not have tied a sheet to a pipe under the sink or to a sink faucet and suffocate and then, near death, convulse and twist his head or neck or perhaps jerk back hard enough to break vertebrae? Something like that?

I'm just raising a possibility here; I have no thought as to true murder or suicide.
Click to expand...

When people have convulsions, it's not actually violently thrashing around. Epileptics don't generally hurt themselves from convulsions themselves - just the falling down and hitting their heads (and biting their tongues.)

It's exceedingly rare for convulsions themselves to cause bone breaking:
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...e_fracture/links/09e41508e8830b975c000000.pdf

Bone fractures, especially vertebral compression fractures, are well–known complications of convulsive seizures (Matson et al. 2004), (8). These fractures mostly result from fall or accident caused by the seizure (Finelli et al. 1989, Vestergaard et al. 1999)...In contrast, contraction of the paraspinal
muscles alone leads to vertebral fractures in epileptic patients at an incidence rate of 0.3%
Click to expand...
 
It's tragic that Barr isn't being held accountable for this. The breakdown of safety at federal corrections facilities is awful.
 
“Hey, let’s murder Jeffrey Epstein and make it look like suicide. Also, for extra fun, let’s ‘hide it in plain sight’ by getting the coroner to say multiple bones were fractured when any schoolboy knows this is as likely as the David Kelly suicide or the JFK magic bullet...mwahahahahahaha!”
 
quadraginta said:
Until there is some authoritative resolution of the one bone vs. multiple bones broken question (falsified forensic reporting aside), I think much of this discussion is a bit premature.
Click to expand...

I think it's obvious that, was he murdered because of conspiracy to cover up crimes, it seems extremely unlikely that they would have not falsified any subsequent documents to make it clear he died an unsuspicous death.

It's not like just anyone can murder a specific detainee in federal prison, let alone somehow stage the murder scene so that there's nothing obvious that suggests they were infact murdered. If only a more thorough analysis of his corpse would indicate that he was murdered, it seems incredibly stupid and incompetent on part of these well connected and powerful conspiracy members to not have taken that into account.
 
Last edited:
Arcade22 said:
I think it's obvious that, was he murdered because of conspiracy to cover up crimes, it seems extremely unlikely that they would have not falsified any subsequent documents to make it clear he died an unsuspicous death.

It's not like just anyone can murder a specific detainee in federal prison, let alone somehow stage the murder scene so that there's nothing obvious that suggests they were infact murdered. If only a more thorough analysis of his corpse would indicate that he was murdered, it seems incredibly stupid and incompetent on part of these well connected and powerful conspiracy members to not have taken that into account.
Click to expand...

Generally true, but some US prisons are utterly broken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitey_Bulger#Death

This was the third homicide at the prison in a 40-day span.
Click to expand...
October 2018.
 
Arcade22 said:
I think it's obvious that, was he murdered because of conspiracy to cover up crimes, it seems extremely unlikely that they would have not falsified any subsequent documents to make it clear he died an unsuspicous death.
Click to expand...


Not that I'm arguing for a conspiracy at all, but if this were a real conspiracy (as opposed to a conspiracy theory) it wouldn't necessarily be able to control all the evidence. Actual conspiracies have potential flaws.
 
quadraginta said:
Until there is some authoritative resolution of the one bone vs. multiple bones broken question (falsified forensic reporting aside), I think much of this discussion is a bit premature.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, it was a sole report from the WaPo, which said "bones" (plural), which all the other reports mentioning neck injuries were based on/referenced.
Those latter reports which only mention one bone are just noting that the one bone mentioned by name isn't a slam-dunk 100% for it being murder, even though it's far more common in murder vs suicide.

If you can find any original reporting that says it was a single bone, I'd be happy to see it, though.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom