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Today's Mass Shooting

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This news report is from 2016:



The man featured in that report, Conor Climo, has just been arrested in Las Vegas. According to the FBI, Climo was networking with white supremacist/nazi groups online and discussing plans to attack a synagogue and a gay bar in Las Vegas. A search of his house discovered drawn attack plans and bomb components.
 
mgidm86 said:
Sorry, the daily murders by gang-bangers in large cities doesn't fit the chosen narrative here. I've already tried this approach. Just another weekend in Chicago I guess.

It needs to be tied to white supremacy dontcha see? There are like 50 of those per year after all! Fifty I say! And that is less than in 2015 and 2016, but never mind that. It's a bigger problem, just trust me!
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Actually, seen from the other side of the pond at least, those would also be a good reason to limit access to weapons.
I always find it shocking that such continuous levels of gun murders are SO common in the US that they are not even newsworthy anymore.
 
They are newsworthy. All of the murders in Chicago being complained about by certain persons in this thread for instance, have actually been covered in mainstream news outlets.

They are being invoked in this thread solely as a means to distract or detract from the particular kinds of incidents the discussion here has settled around. They do not like that attention is being paid to white-nationalism-as-nexus-to-violence-and-terrorism, so they're trying to change the subject by waving a red cape and shouting LOOK OVER HERE LOTS OF MURDERS WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THESE INSTEAD???? It's a quite common rhetorical tactic.
 
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Checkmite said:
They are newsworthy. All of the murders in Chicago being complained about by certain persons in this thread for instance, have actually been covered in mainstream news outlets.

They are being invoked in this thread solely as a means to distract or detract from the particular kinds of incidents the discussion here has settled around. They do not like that attention is being paid to white-nationalism-as-nexus-to-violence-and-terrorism, so they're trying to change the subject by waving a red cape and shouting LOOK OVER HERE LOTS OF MURDERS WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THESE INSTEAD???? It's a quite common rhetorical tactic.
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And let's not forget about swimming pools.
 
jimbob said:
It's almost as though single-shot firearms are less effective than semiautomatic ones if you want to kill lots of people before being killed yourself.
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True, but nearly every source I've looked at says these words, "carried two shotgun-like weapons and a pistol". Where are you getting your info that says single shot?
 
Ranb said:
True, but nearly every source I've looked at says these words, "carried two shotgun-like weapons and a pistol". Where are you getting your info that says single shot?
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Typing in haste, sorry, "double shot" weapons would have been more accurate.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
While the lefties are pretending like the two nut-jobs who shot up Dayton and El Paso are the biggest news this year, 7 people were murdered and 52 wounded just in Chicago last weekend and Baltimore has reached 200 murders already this year. It's one giant "Look at the squirrel".
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Remember when The PDJT said of all the violence and killing in Chicago - "This stops right here, and right now!"?

That was on Day One of his Presidency. How's that working so far?
 
Checkmite said:
They are newsworthy. All of the murders in Chicago being complained about by certain persons in this thread for instance, have actually been covered in mainstream news outlets.

They are being invoked in this thread solely as a means to distract or detract from the particular kinds of incidents the discussion here has settled around. They do not like that attention is being paid to white-nationalism-as-nexus-to-violence-and-terrorism, so they're trying to change the subject by waving a red cape and shouting LOOK OVER HERE LOTS OF MURDERS WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THESE INSTEAD???? It's a quite common rhetorical tactic.
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The fun part is that their use of the Chicago homicide rate is misleading nearly to the point of being "lying with statistics". Yes, there was a large spike in the homicide rate a few years back, but that rate has been steadily declining since then. And historically, even the recent peak was still well below what it was a couple decades ago.

The other reason that this comparison is so (intentionally?) misleading is that the bulk of violent crime in Chicago is gang-related, typically inter-gang warfare, and is concentrated in the poorest districts, which are also predominantly minority districts. Poverty in these areas of Chicago is some of the worst in the nation; and consequently gang membership and activity in those areas is among the highest in the nation. It's mainly gangs fighting over territory. That's an oversimplification, of course, as there are a number of other factors, but it's the biggest factor.

Yes, it's bad, but it's not nearly the problem that Trump and his fanboys want to pretend it is; and certainly not even remotely equivalent to the rise in ideology-driven white supremacist terrorism. Just another distraction tactic from a government and political community who are invested in denying the problem of white supremacism in this country, for reasons that are bloody obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention.
 
luchog said:
The fun part is that their use of the Chicago homicide rate is misleading nearly to the point of being "lying with statistics". Yes, there was a large spike in the homicide rate a few years back, but that rate has been steadily declining since then. And historically, even the recent peak was still well below what it was a couple decades ago.

The other reason that this comparison is so (intentionally?) misleading is that the bulk of violent crime in Chicago is gang-related, typically inter-gang warfare, and is concentrated in the poorest districts, which are also predominantly minority districts. Poverty in these areas of Chicago is some of the worst in the nation; and consequently gang membership and activity in those areas is among the highest in the nation. It's mainly gangs fighting over territory. That's an oversimplification, of course, as there are a number of other factors, but it's the biggest factor.

Yes, it's bad, but it's not nearly the problem that Trump and his fanboys want to pretend it is; and certainly not even remotely equivalent to the rise in ideology-driven white supremacist terrorism. Just another distraction tactic from a government and political community who are invested in denying the problem of white supremacism in this country, for reasons that are bloody obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention.
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So what if the bulk of inner city crime is gang related?

How is the so-called rise in white supremacist mass killings (50 per year?) worse than the thousands killed each year by gangs? The victims are no less dead because the killers were poor or in gangs.

Spike in the Chicago crime rate? There are thousands of gang related shootings every year all over the country. Spike in Chicago? Try LA then. They have a daily column listing the shootings that occur there.

We're talking about thousands of gang killings vs mass shootings by white supremacists. There is no comparison to be made except to say that there are vastly more of one than the other.

One is making headlines, the other is rarely discussed. That may be the problem.

Wake me up when these white supremacist mass killings overtake death by lightning strikes by a significant amount.

ETA:
2015 and 2016 had more mass whitey shooting deaths than 2018. There is no rise, the numbers have been around 50 for quite some time. The numbers are pretty stagnant and low. Unfounded hysteria.
 
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The difference has to do with the disconnect.

The places where gang violence occur feature social factors that lead one to sensibly conclude, "that is clearly unsustainable and is going to boil over at some point."

When I look at the life arc of these white nationalist shooters I can't understand how they ended up at "I just have to go murder random people right now."
 
Mgidm86, I'll just ask you directly: did you ever find terrorism by Islamic extremists worrysome? Because if you did or do, you are being hypocritical and probably racist.
 
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alfaniner said:
Remember when The PDJT said of all the violence and killing in Chicago - "This stops right here, and right now!"?

That was on Day One of his Presidency. How's that working so far?
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It turned out that Posse Comitatus wouldn't let him send in the Army to pacify the city. Who knew crime prevention could be so complicated?
 
mgidm86 said:
So what if the bulk of inner city crime is gang related?

How is the so-called rise in white supremacist mass killings (50 per year?) worse than the thousands killed each year by gangs? The victims are no less dead because the killers were poor or in gangs.

Spike in the Chicago crime rate? There are thousands of gang related shootings every year all over the country. Spike in Chicago? Try LA then. They have a daily column listing the shootings that occur there.

We're talking about thousands of gang killings vs mass shootings by white supremacists. There is no comparison to be made except to say that there are vastly more of one than the other.

One is making headlines, the other is rarely discussed. That may be the problem.

Wake me up when these white supremacist mass killings overtake death by lightning strikes by a significant amount.

ETA:
2015 and 2016 had more mass whitey shooting deaths than 2018. There is no rise, the numbers have been around 50 for quite some time. The numbers are pretty stagnant and low. Unfounded hysteria.
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The difference between these mass shootings and gang violence is who the victims are: if you wish to avoid gang violence you mostly just don't join a gang. But there is no such simple way to avoid random public shootings. The victims of those have taken no steps to increase their risk, and it could therefore happen to absolutely anyone.
 
TragicMonkey said:
The difference between these mass shootings and gang violence is who the victims are: if you wish to avoid gang violence you mostly just don't join a gang. But there is no such simple way to avoid random public shootings. The victims of those have taken no steps to increase their risk, and it could therefore happen to absolutely anyone.
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Gang violence is largely quarantined to the most impoverished sectors of major cities and rarely spills out into the greater public. The victims are other gang members or poor people who have little ability to escape these dangerous neighborhoods. The US public has long been comfortable ignoring the concentrated misery that exists for poor people in these neighborhoods.

If this gang activity was spilling over into their middle and upper class neighborhoods, you can bet your life that it would become a major public policy issue.
 
Ranb said:
If a person refuses to name a source for their information, then it is probably something they made up.
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Yea I mean I think pump shotguns in addition to double barrel are pretty much standard anywhere you can buy shotguns. They might have very limited magazines but still they are allowed.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yea I mean I think pump shotguns in addition to double barrel are pretty much standard anywhere you can buy shotguns. They might have very limited magazines but still they are allowed.
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It's a reflection on the fact that in Britain, where the shotguns are limited to a capacity of three shells in total, so I hadn't even thought about any types other than single or double-barrelled.

An assumption that was invalid.
 
uke2se said:
Mgidm86, I'll just ask you directly: did you ever find terrorism by Islamic extremists worrysome? Because if you did or do, you are being hypocritical and probably racist.
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A relevant question I'd like to see an honest answer to.

The 'authorities' direct far more attention and resources to combatting international-born terrorism (especially Islamic) than they do home-grown terrorism. Despite the latter being 2-3 times deadlier.

Your average American has long been quaking in their boots over the notion of some A-rab slitting their throat or blowing them up, while ignoring the greater risk of their being shot by some disgruntled, American good ol' boy.

Is the difference in concern due to the mode of death; better a bullet than knife or bomb?

Or is is the nationality; better a fellow citizen snuff you out than some dirty furiner?

Or is it the race; better a whitey than a darkie?

To me it's irrationality on a grand scale.
 
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