Stochastic Terrorism and Edgelord Humour

[Puppycow]

This might fall under too little, too late, but:
The founder of 8chan, the anonymous online messaging board that's a haven for extremist content, calls for the site to be shut down

 

[Checkmite]

This might fall under too little, too late, but:
The founder of 8chan, the anonymous online messaging board that's a haven for extremist content, calls for the site to be shut down

Fredrick Brennan, a software developer who founded the site in 2013 but cut ties with it in December, told the Washington Post on Sunday that the site is a "receptive audience for domestic terrorists."

"Once again, a terrorist used 8chan to spread his message as he knew people would save it and spread it," Brennan told the Post. "The board is a receptive audience for domestic terrorists."

He added that the site's owners should "do the world a favor and shut it off."

Worth pointing out that "software developer Fredrick Brennan founded 8chan in 2013" after the owner of 4chan banned child pornography-sharing and pedophilia advocacy on that site. 8chan was first populated by displaced pedophiles and their supporters. Brennan has justified allowing the linking of child porn on 8chan by characterizing it as the inevitable cost of "truly" supporting free speech.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The fact so many of the "lonewolf" white nationalist terrorist have a "manifesto" speaks to the political motivations of their attacks. No doubt this is white supremacy in its death throes... Unfortunately white supremacy mixed with assault weapons and a empowered ideology = mass murder.

This seems radically optimistic, I mean they won the white house how can this be seen as their death throes? It seems more like resurgent power.

 

[Belz...]

But how is this terrorism?

How is it not?

 

[luchog]

This might fall under too little, too late, but:
The founder of 8chan, the anonymous online messaging board that's a haven for extremist content, calls for the site to be shut down

It's something, at least. The news on NPR this morning was that 8chan's host service pulled the plug and they are officially offline. One big contributor to the radicalization pipeline taken down. Hopefully, more hosts will follow suit and remove hate sites from their services; but I'm not holding my breath.

This seems radically optimistic, I mean they won the white house how can this be seen as their death throes? It seems more like resurgent power.

Have to agree with that. It's always been there, just under the surface, now it's been given tacit approval from the highest offices in the land. Unless something is done to address the problem more stringently, it's just going to keep growing and keep murdering.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Well, it was a violent act perpetrated by someone with radical political beliefs who, before shooting up a crowd of people, made posts on social media identifying the groups of people he didn't like (and his apparent dissatifaction with how he saw them changing the area) and praising/recommending a book used by white nationalists as a manifesto. That fits the FBI's definition of domestic terrorism pretty much exactly, and is also a perfect example of stochastic terrorism. Why do you think it doesn't count as terrorism?

Was the goal to instill fear and terror?

No. It wasn't even intended to sabotage a hated policy.

Just because someone leaning to the right is doing it or because public property is targeted doesn't make it terrorism.

 

[jimbob]

Was the goal to instill fear and terror?

No. It wasn't even intended to sabotage a hated policy.

Just because someone leaning to the right is doing it or because public property is targeted doesn't make it terrorism.

They killed lots of people to further an ideology.

But I suppose that I should be pleased that this time you actually accept that the victims are genuine.

 

[ArchSas]

Was the goal to instill fear and terror?

No.

Why do you think it wasn't? That's why the shooter singled out the people he didn't like and promoted the ideology he believes in before launching a violent, public attack. He was furthering his ideology (again, the attack fits the definition of domestic terrorism exactly, something you ignored). The goal is to tell the group he has a problem with "I don't like you, and here's a whole movement that wants to hurt you." To make that group afraid. Violence carried out as a threat is (as far as I know) pretty basic to white supremacist terrorism, going all the way back to the KKK. Do you think the shooter had a different motive?

 

[bruto]

Was the goal to instill fear and terror?
No. It wasn't even intended to sabotage a hated policy.

Just because someone leaning to the right is doing it or because public property is targeted doesn't make it terrorism.

Is that an editorial "no" or an imperial one? I don't think you're in a position to judge so certainly what the shooter's goals were. Why do you think that shooting up a public place after naming the hated group you're intending to murder would not instill fear and terror? Because he was too successful in his primary goal to kill them outright? Besides, public property was not targeted, people using it were targeted.

 

[Checkmite]

Was the goal to instill fear and terror?

Instilling fear and terror in the target class is one of the two main goals of every mass shooting.

 

[dudalb]

The motives in the Dayton shootings seem murky, but the El Paso shooting motivation seems pretty damn clear. A act of violent bigotry if ever there was one.

 

[The Norseman]

"Just because someone leaning to the right is doing it or because public property is targeted doesn't make it terrorism."

Hmm.... how about one slight change?

"Just because someone leaning to the left is doing it or because public property is targeted doesn't make it terrorism."

Great! Now antifa is officially off the hook! Glad we could clear that up!

 

[CaptainHowdy]

How is it not?

In the same way the attack on the ICE facility wasn't terrorism.

 

[portlandatheist]

CNN is reporting the Dayton shooter to be a leftist and antifa
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/us/connor-betts-dayton-shooting-profile/index.html
It seems his motivation, or what little we know about it, is probably more personal than political unlinke the El Paso shooter that published a manifesto but we shouldn't rule out the effect of Stochastic Terrorism on the shooter as antifa provides normalization and rationalization for political violence.

 

[ArchSas]

CNN is reporting the Dayton shooter to be a leftist and antifa
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/us/connor-betts-dayton-shooting-profile/index.html
It seems his motivation, or what little we know about it, is probably more personal than political unlinke the El Paso shooter that published a manifesto but we shouldn't rule out the effect of Stochastic Terrorism on the shooter as antifa provides normalization and rationalization for political violence.

I haven't seen anything actually tying the Dayton shooter to antifa in a concrete way; sure, his Twitter feeds seems to indicate he leaned to the left, but Tweets from some of his associates also seem to balk at the idea he actually believed in leftist or antifa ideals due to his known misogyny, and I'm not aware of him being involved in any antifa activism. Yesterday, I posted in the mass shooting thread that his background reminded me a lot of an incel rampage killer, and given what I've seen so far, that's still what he reminds me the most of. Either way, I'd agree that his motivation seemed more personal than political, which is why I really don't like seeing media outlets trying to label him as an antifa terrorist. There's no reason to use the Dayton shooting to advance a centrist or "antifa is dangerous, too" narrative. For the same reason, I seriously disagree with the efforts to label the El Paso shooter as an ecoterrorist. Whether or not the Dayton shooter identified with antifa as an ideology, he certainly doesn't seem to have carried out the attack to further any antifa goals or to publicize a leftist agenda.

 

[Venom]

The motives in the Dayton shootings seem murky, but the El Paso shooting motivation seems pretty damn clear. A act of violent bigotry if ever there was one.

The Dayton shooting looks like the typical depressed narcissistic lashing out.
Columbine shooting, Virginia Tech massacre, etc.

As far as political views the guy was all over the place, outwardly progressive and at the same time involved in incel circles, which are often high misogynistic, but not particularly political and I don't think it's as relevant as his history of being bullied and sexual frustration.

 

[Checkmite]

And that IS important. Alt-righters will insist it's a copout; but although the guy seemed to identify as a political leftist, the crucial difference between him and the El Paso shooter is that there's no manifesto saying "there's a problem and I'm going to fix it with my guns". It's claimed he supported anti-facists; but his shooting spree did not target fascists. His tweets complain about cops and Republican lawmakers not acting after school shootings; but his rampage didn't target police or Republican politicians, or even a generalized demographic that skews conservative. He was by all accounts a raging misogynist, but his actual attack did not focus on women.

For that matter, he tweeted criticism about guns being too prolific and readily available in America, but he also tweeted about how much he "loved guns". He tweeted complaints about school shootings and nothing being done. In fact it's reported that his last activities before his own shooting spree, were liking others' tweets condemning the El Paso massacre:

In the hours before the Dayton shooting, the Twitter account "liked" several tweets about a shooting in El Paso, Texas, that left 22 dead, including one supporting gun control and others that called the El Paso shooting suspect a "terrorist," and a "white supremacist."

...and then that very same evening he commits a mass shooting of his own. Are we actually 100% that IS the same guy's Twitter account? Such contradictory behavior makes it impossible to know what he was really thinking.

 

[Puppycow]

The Dayton shooting looks like the typical depressed narcissistic lashing out.
Columbine shooting, Virginia Tech massacre, etc.

As far as political views the guy was all over the place, outwardly progressive and at the same time involved in incel circles, which are often high misogynistic, but not particularly political and I don't think it's as relevant as his history of being bullied and sexual frustration.

Was he bullied?

I've read reports that he was suspended twice, once for making a hit list and once for making a rape list. If you want to end up a pariah, I can't think of a better way than that. No wonder his peers avoided him like the plague.

 

[Belz...]

In the same way the attack on the ICE facility wasn't terrorism.

I can certainly find a way to describe 9/11 in a way that doesn't make it terrorism. Here goes: did the attackers intend to cause fear? No, their goal was to hurt America's economy.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I can certainly find a way to describe 9/11 in a way that doesn't make it terrorism. Here goes: did the attackers intend to cause fear? No, their goal was to hurt America's economy.

And if they had left portfolios to their families with Put options on US stocks, you might have a point.
But we do have statements that they had a political goal that they want to fulfill by fear - they didn't believe that destroying the World Trade Center would destroy the US military. Instead, they wanted to sap the will to fight.