Today's Mass Shooting

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quadraginta said:
The same way that 50% of the voters in a state can end up with 23% of the seats from their state in the HoR represented by their party.
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Sure ... but the majority of voters accross all of the the USA? Well, OK, maybe still a small majority might not be enough to win the most seats (that's how the electoral system works).

But I expect you understand the point - if enough voters in the US really insist that their politicians pass truly effective changes to the gun laws, then the politicians will have to do that ... otherwise they will be voted out of office and out of a job. And new politicians who will follow the demands of the voters will be in power.

But up until now, it seems like not enough voters in the USA really want strict enough restrictions on their desire to own guns.
 
Checkmite said:
The Dayton shooter is turning out to be rather the opposite of the El Paso shooter. In old social media posts he calls himself a leftist who is "going to hell", rails against mass shootings, and urges people to "vote blue".



None of his social media postings so far hint at any mass shooting plans, or intent to commit violence against any particular group. The entertainment district he struck at caters to a wide and diverse demographic.

Claims from people purporting to have gone to high school with the shooter consistently describe a well-known misogynist and hypermasculine bully, who was once expelled for writing an alleged "hit list" on a bathroom wall.
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This is obviously pure speculation on my part (and with more information, it could very well be unfounded), but his hypermasculine attitudes, misogyny, employment/school history, living situation, and that he appeared to target his sister and her boyfriend make me wonder if this guy was another incel rampage killer. His background certainly fits with what I remember about he previous incel/MRA-motivated killers.

I'm assuming we'll learn more within the next few days, but that's what this reminds me of at this point.
 
Cain said:
In the comments on a news article, one guy last week argued that "statistically speaking, your local surgeon kills more people than the latest mass-murderer." It reminded me of an old joke Paulos shares in Innumeracy: A worried professor smuggles a bomb in his luggage every time he flies because there's an astronomical chance two bombers will share a flight.
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And by similar stupidity, if you carry that bomb on 100% of your flights, you greatly increase the odds of 2 bombers on 1 plane.
 
ArchSas said:
His background certainly fits with what I remember about he previous incel/MRA-motivated killers.
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It does, but I'm iffy. Incel rampagers so far have also tended to make no secret of their incelly positions in their online postings, and as of yet there's no sign of that kind of thing here.

This is a weird one. It's nothing but my inexpert opinion, but I find it extremely unlikely that the shooter's sister winding up dead in this attack is a coincidence. At the same time though the amount of firepower he brought, also in my opinion, makes it extremely unlikely that he for instance originally only planned to kill his sister, and then only after the deed was done made a snap decision that "well I'm did now, screw it" and to go down in a blaze of inglory. This was a planned mass-shooting from the beginning.
 
It's just fashion now. Maybe ridiculing it can help ? Like every time you report on mass shooting, you will call the shooter 'Mr. Smalldick'. I mean every shooter. Again. And again.
 
portlandatheist said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson disappoints:
https://www.tmz.com/2019/08/04/neil-degrasse-tyson-mass-shooting-data-tweet/


This pisses me off. While true, that is besides the point.
First off, a death from violence is not the same as a death from an accident like a car accident. It is far more traumatic to the survivors.
Secondly, not all violent deaths are equivalent, that is why we have Murder 1, etc.
We have separate laws for terrorism and hate crimes that are different than a murder as a crime of passion for a reason: It terrorizes whole groups of people. It victimizes more people. So it is more than just numbers.
Lastly, we work incredibly hard with our public health infrastructure and hard data and evidence based policies to reduce things like the flu. Not so much with gun violence.
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Saw that. What a dickhead. He is cancelled.
 
Shooty McDayton, when in high school, allegedly made a hit list of girls he wanted to kill. Maybe he was incelly after all.

“This isn’t a mystery to me,” said one middle school classmate. “I’m furious.”

The classmate, who spoke to the newspaper on condition of anonymity, said the shooter once said he fantasized about tying her up and slitting her throat. The fetish was so macabre that even the shooter admitted he was scared of his thoughts, the woman recalled him saying.

“He knew it wasn’t normal,” the woman said about the decade-old conversation. “He and I talked at length about him getting help.”

The woman said she and her parents told Bellbrook police about the bizarre admission, but the woman said she felt she wasn’t taken seriously, despite the would-be shooter including her on a hit list.
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Dr.Sid said:
It's just fashion now. Maybe ridiculing it can help ? Like every time you report on mass shooting, you will call the shooter 'Mr. Smalldick'. I mean every shooter. Again. And again.
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Help stop more gun massacres and other senseless gun deaths? You would be better served by directing ridicule and ire at elected officials who block gun control, then don’t vote for them. The shooters can remain nameless and rot in prison.
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, I can't imagine anyone serious today would literally say "thoughts and prayers" in response to a shooting like this. Are they so oblivious to not realize the backlash there is against it?

Then again, given its trump, of course....

But again, you have to be completely tone-deaf to think saying thoughts and prayers has any meaning any more.
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That doesn't sound like something a real xian would say.
 
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Checkmite said:
About the Dayton victims

About the El Paso victims

In El Paso, 6 of the fatalities and 7 of the wounded were Mexican nationals. The Mexican government has indicated that it intends to formally request access to the investigation on behalf of its affected citizens, and may go as far as requesting extradition.
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Not to minimize that, but Mexico has murder problems of its own.

Murder rate in Mexico soars to new record (2 Aug 2019)
The murder rate in Mexico is at the highest level recorded in its history - on average around 90 people are murdered every day. More than 17,000 were killed in the first half of this year.

That figure does not include drive-by shootings, kidnappings, extortion and other serious crimes, as cartel and gang violence continue across the country.
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(17,000 in half a years is about the same as the US has in a whole year (2017 was the latest figures I could find from the FBI). But the population of Mexico is less than half, so do the math and it's over 4 times the US rate.)


Third Mexican journalist killed in a week amid record murder rate (4 Aug 2019)
An investigation has been launched into the death of a reporter in the Mexican state of Veracruz after he became the third journalist to be murdered in a week.

As the country grapples with a record murder rate, Mexican officials in the Gulf coast state of Veracruz where Jorge Ruiz Vazquez worked for the Grafico de Xalapa newspaper in Veracruz’s capital, said the investigation would examine why procedures to protect him failed.

“The prosecutor will investigate why protection measures granted to the victim and his family, which were active, were not enforced,” the state’s prosecutor said.

Ruiz was shot dead just days before he was scheduled to testify before state authorities about previous death threats made against him. He alleged that Actopan Mayor Paulino Domínguez Sánchez was behind the threats.
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portlandatheist said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson disappoints:
https://www.tmz.com/2019/08/04/neil-degrasse-tyson-mass-shooting-data-tweet/


This pisses me off. While true, that is besides the point.
First off, a death from violence is not the same as a death from an accident like a car accident. It is far more traumatic to the survivors.
Secondly, not all violent deaths are equivalent, that is why we have Murder 1, etc.
We have separate laws for terrorism and hate crimes that are different than a murder as a crime of passion for a reason: It terrorizes whole groups of people. It victimizes more people. So it is more than just numbers.
Lastly, we work incredibly hard with our public health infrastructure and hard data and evidence based policies to reduce things like the flu. Not so much with gun violence.
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Not only extremely tone deaf but I doubt his figures for deaths due to "medical error" are even correct:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ar...ommon-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-2019-edition/
 
Checkmite said:
Shooty McDayton, when in high school, allegedly made a hit list of girls he wanted to kill. Maybe he was incelly after all.
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Yeah this is the archetypal rampage killer.

Jilted soul with no one to turn to, maybe in deep debt, maybe a frustrated incel.

I think it's important to see the differences and the similar driving factors in these types and the fairly recent trend of white nationalist/supremacist shooters.

There seems to be some overlap but I think it's minimal and the white supremacist, domestic terrorism cases are not that common compared to the cases involving extreme spite and rage.
 
Venom said:
There seems to be some overlap but I think it's minimal and the white supremacist, domestic terrorism cases are not that common compared to the cases involving extreme spite and rage.
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I'm not sure I'm ready to agree that the white supremacy-motivated mass shootings are less common than simple rage-outs or ones for which a motive can't be determined, among white mass shooters. It may well be the case though; I haven't exactly done any surveys.

I will say that it's my impression the white-nationalist/racially-motivated incidents have become more common within the last several years than they were previously; but I may even be wrong about that.
 
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