"SEND HER BACK!" Will they defend this?

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

How about this standard?

While the evidence does not conclude that the congresswoman committed a crime, it also does not exonerate her.

In the minds of many lefties, that's enough to prove guilt.

Since RBF just spent quite a lot of energy explaining why you couldn't possibly be serious when you say things like this, perhaps you could clarify for everybody - when you say this, are you joking, are you serious, or are you trolling?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that every claim of Omar disparaging America is true. Trump disparages America all the time. The last few days his twitter feed has been dominated by attacks on Baltimore, as one example.

Why is it okay for Trump and not Omar? Is the difference between them really just that she was an asylum-seeker?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that every claim of Omar disparaging America is true. Trump disparages America all the time. The last few days his twitter feed has been dominated by attacks on Baltimore, as one example.

Why is it okay for Trump and not Omar? Is the difference between them really just that she was an asylum-seeker?

No, the difference is that Trump is selling weapons to the country that gave us the 9/11 hijackers by overruling Congress.

 

[The Don]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that every claim of Omar disparaging America is true. Trump disparages America all the time. The last few days his twitter feed has been dominated by attacks on Baltimore, as one example.

Why is it okay for Trump and not Omar? Is the difference between them really just that she was an asylum-seeker?

President Trump and his KAGA supporters were and are proud patriots who are justified in identifying the issues with America caused by enemies of real Americans such as:

• The Kenyan Muslim who lied and cheated his way into the White House
• The black representatives who are keeping their consitiuents on the "reservation" while lining their own pockets and keeping the welfare flowing (OTOH large sums for farmers, coal miners and so on are justified because that's keeping true Americans in jobs)
• Ecologists and other eco-weanies who are wasting time, effort and money and who are destroying the US way of life by suggesting that people use less and care for the environment more

Criticising these traitors is a loyal American's patriotic duty.

OTOH, now that America is great again, any criticism whatsoever about the people who have made it so - President Trump and his red-hatted supporters - is tantamount to treason.

Quite frankly I'm surprised you cant understand the clear distinction

 

[smartcooky]

We have email exchanges in which a senior member of the Trump campaign gleefully accepts a meeting with someone offering the support of the Russian government.

We have the numerous lies that followed to cover up that meeting and hide its true to intent.

You have a screenshot of an alleged Instagram post.

The bodies of evidence are not even remotely comparable, so the standard remains intact.

FTFY

 

[jimbob]

I've just realised that I might have been making an unwarranted assumption.

theprestige, I gather from this thread that you don't condemn Trump's language.

Do you actually think that racism is bad?

 

[theprestige]

Do you actually think that racism is bad?

Yes.

Do you?

 

[jimbob]

Yes.

Do you?

good, what would convince you that Trump's racism is not worth getting an anti-abortion Supreme Court?

ETA, and Of course I do, but then I have not made excuses for Trump's racist comments, 'Send them back' being almost a stereotype phrase for racists, that I hadn't realised was used in real life these days.

 

[jimbob]

I've just realised that I might have been making an unwarranted assumption.

theprestige, I gather from this thread that you don't condemn Trump's language.

Do you actually think that racism is bad?

Yes.

Do you?

good, what would convince you that Trump's racism is not worth getting an anti-abortion Supreme Court?

ETA, and Of course I do, but then I have not made excuses for Trump's racist comments, 'Send them back' being almost a stereotype phrase for racists, that I hadn't realised was used in real life these days.

As you have accepted that your initial defence of Trump's comments was based on a logical fallacy, do you have any non-fallacious reason to believe that Trump's use of racist language was not racist?

 

[theprestige]

good, what would convince you that Trump's racism is not worth getting an anti-abortion Supreme Court?

If bigotry were unique to Donald Trump, then I would oppose spoiling America's perfect record of non-bigots in high office. Even if it meant the Supreme Court might continue to be more tolerant of abortions-of-convenience than I would like.

 

[phiwum]

If bigotry were unique to Donald Trump, then I would oppose spoiling America's perfect record of non-bigots in high office. Even if it meant the Supreme Court might continue to be more tolerant of abortions-of-convenience than I would like.

Since the presidency is already impure, you can ignore Trump's explicit bigotry? How the hell does that work?

How long ago since the White House was inhabited by a vocal racist? How long ago since a seriously bigoted but circumspect racist? For the latter, I'd say Reagan (given the recent news). For the former, I'm not sure.

So does Reagan and his bigoted predecessors mean that Trump's bigotry is not so important?

 

[Upchurch]

If bigotry were unique to Donald Trump, then I would oppose spoiling America's perfect record of non-bigots in high office.

We haven't had nearly as Nazi-friendly of a president in at least the last 75 years. Is that unique enough? Or do you mean bigotry at all, context be damned?

 

[theprestige]

As you have accepted that your initial defence of Trump's comments was based on a logical fallacy, do you have any non-fallacious reason to believe that Trump's use of racist language was not racist?

Yes. It's not racist to tell someone, "if you don't like it, leave." That's just the classic, "if X political outcome happens, I'm moving to Canada!" from the other side of the aisle.

It's not racist to tell a libertarian to move to Somalia if they like libertarianism so much. Even if the libertarian in question is black.

Even though the phrase is used by racists, it still has utility and meaning that are not racist. That meaning can be applied even in cases where the person being invited to leave is indeed a different race than the person issuing the invitation.

Telling Ilhan Omar, who is literally a Somali immigrant, to go to Somalia, fix it, and then come back and show America how it's done, is perhaps unfair, but it's not necessarily racist.

Indeed, telling an immigrant who doesn't like America to go back where they came from seems like an obvious and reasonable answer to their expressions of dislike. It might be more reasonable to invite them to work on making America better. It's been argued that Omar doesn't hate America, she just wants to make it better. That's fine. I'm not arguing against that.

Anyway, I don't see carelessly telling an immigrant, if they don't like America they can leave it, as an expression of bigotry so heinous that it must be ended at all costs. Presidents say stupid and bigoted **** all the time.

This is just yet another attempt at forcing The One Thing That Will Bring Trump Down. Let it go, man.

 

[theprestige]

Since the presidency is already impure, you can ignore Trump's explicit bigotry? How the hell does that work?

Perceived bigotry.

Ignore? No. I no more ignore Trump's bigotry than I do Obama's, or Bush's or Clinton's. I also don't freak out about it, the way so many people selectively freak out when commanded by ORANGE MAN BAD.

 

[jimbob]

Perceived bigotry.

Ignore? No. I no more ignore Trump's bigotry than I do Obama's, or Bush's or Clinton's. I also don't freak out about it, the way so many people selectively freak out when commanded by ORANGE MAN BAD.

You just can't find as egregious examples from any President other than Trump in the last 40 years at least.

 

[theprestige]

You just can't find as egregious examples from any President other than Trump in the last 40 years at least.

Probably because of how evil I am.

Are we done here?

I've given my non-fallacious argument at least twice in this thread. I've told you what weight I assign to such buffoonery. We even have a whole spinoff thread now, about how evil all this is.

We're not going to agree on these points. Your opinion of me isn't going to change, nor mine of you. Is there anything new you want to say?

 

[phiwum]

Yes. It's not racist to tell someone, "if you don't like it, leave." That's just the classic, "if X political outcome happens, I'm moving to Canada!" from the other side of the aisle.

First, the two are not equivalent. Saying you'll leave is not the same as telling someone else to.

But he didn't just say they should leave if they don't like America (and, of course, they are working for what they view as the betterment of the nation, just like Trump says he is). He said they should go back to where they came from. That's why folks say it is bigoted. He didn't say they should find a country more to their liking. He insinuated they don't really belong here.

That's worse even than "Love it or leave it" from the 60s or 70s.

And, let's be clear: he's saying it to folks who are working to make America better. Now maybe they're utterly wrong about what would make it better, but surely you don't think they hate the nation and want to make it worse.

 

[phiwum]

Perceived bigotry.

Ignore? No. I no more ignore Trump's bigotry than I do Obama's, or Bush's or Clinton's. I also don't freak out about it, the way so many people selectively freak out when commanded by ORANGE MAN BAD.

Tell me about the bigotry of those three. What rivaled telling political opposition to go back where they came from?

One example from each would suffice. More if you want to provide it.

 

[bruto]

Yes. It's not racist to tell someone, "if you don't like it, leave." That's just the classic, "if X political outcome happens, I'm moving to Canada!" from the other side of the aisle.

It's not racist to tell a libertarian to move to Somalia if they like libertarianism so much. Even if the libertarian in question is black.

Even though the phrase is used by racists, it still has utility and meaning that are not racist. That meaning can be applied even in cases where the person being invited to leave is indeed a different race than the person issuing the invitation.

Telling Ilhan Omar, who is literally a Somali immigrant, to go to Somalia, fix it, and then come back and show America how it's done, is perhaps unfair, but it's not necessarily racist.

Indeed, telling an immigrant who doesn't like America to go back where they came from seems like an obvious and reasonable answer to their expressions of dislike. It might be more reasonable to invite them to work on making America better. It's been argued that Omar doesn't hate America, she just wants to make it better. That's fine. I'm not arguing against that. Anyway, I don't see carelessly telling an immigrant, if they don't like America they can leave it, as an expression of bigotry so heinous that it must be ended at all costs. Presidents say stupid and bigoted **** all the time.

This is just yet another attempt at forcing The One Thing That Will Bring Trump Down. Let it go, man.

But you are, if you believe that telling people to leave is a reasonable answer to their attempts. Not liking what they're doing is not the same as pretending that they're not doing it. You may be right that some of Trump's statements are not as racist as some say, but the only problem is that if they're not, they're twice as stupid.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Yes. It's not racist to tell someone, "if you don't like it, leave." That's just the classic, "if X political outcome happens, I'm moving to Canada!" from the other side of the aisle.

You can't actually believe that these statements are two sides of the same coin.