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Mueller Investigation pt 6

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ponderingturtle said:
Bah lying isn't a problem if it was drunky mcrapeface would be in prison instead of on the supreme court. Clearly the only wrong place to lie is in irrelevant questions in a civil lawsuit. Criminal investigations, security clearances, or to congress that is all the right kind of lying.
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There's that too. More outrageous hypocrisy.

There are still people here knee-jerk repeating 'Clinton..perjury' whom I bet never said that about Kavanaugh.

Then of course there's the whole GOP less a few people left that still have an ounce of integrity.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Or anyone else in the POTUS cabinet.
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But the hill the people want to die on for unacceptable lying under oath is of course a question that should never have been asked as it was irrelevant to the case and the response should have been to object to it as irrelevant. Because his relationship with an intern had no relevance to if he sexually harassed Paula Jones.
 
theprestige said:
....

Also, the thing that was lied about was not actually illegal.
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:jaw-dropp

First, you don't know what all the lies were. Second, obstructing the investigation into Russian interference in the election sounds illegal to me. :rolleyes:

Third, can we find a post of yours saying Clinton's perjury was about something illegal? Or not "not actually illegal"? :rolleyes:



Excuse tp was talking about something else are we are all too stupid to follow his discussions in 3....2....1...
 
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ponderingturtle said:
No it isn't. A true perjury trap is base on anomaly hunting and inconsistency in memory from testimony months or years apart. You can be trying to be entirely truthful but with the inconsistency of memory your testimony might vary slightly over time. That is what a true perjury trap is. When a prosecutor asks highly detailed and specific questions months or years apart and because your memory just isn't perfect you answer differently and bang you are guilty of perjury.
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If you are referring to 18 U.S.C. § 1001, it has to be "knowingly and willfully." The law says that it's just not mis-remembering a difficult or old detail.

Any evidence that this law is abused such that perjury is indicted on a non-knowing or non-willful basis? I happy to accept verification as such.
 
theprestige said:
My apologetic was much more limited than what you argued against.

Someone dismissed Twitter history out of hand. I argued that was inappropriate. You took that argument to be a defense of screenshots of Instagram posts, and ended up trying to refute a point I never made, and never intended to make.
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From that thread:

theprestige said:
Upchurch said:
...and that's why it's okay for Trump to say racist things to Congresswomen.
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I don't think it's particularly racist to tell an illegal immigrant to go back to their country of origin.
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phiwum said:
Sorry, are you calling Omar (and the other three of the Squad) illegal immigrants now?

Let's just suppose that Omar's immigration papers falsely omitted her brother and that therefore they are invalid. Trump knew that before saying she should go back to Somalia, did he?

And Ayanna Pressley? Just acceptable unintended casualties in the war against illegal immigrants? (The same applies, of course, to Tlaib and AOC.)
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In context, I struggle for any interpretation other than phiwum's, that you are implying that Omar an illegal immigrant.

That's pretty close to a conspiracy theory - especially when the source of this story also claims Omar married her brother. And also in that thread you dismiss CBS, when their story is consistent with known facts, and the claim is not exceptional.
 
jimbob said:
From that thread:



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In context, I struggle for any interpretation other than phiwum's, that you are implying that Omar an illegal immigrant.
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I was begging the question. It's a logical fallacy. Feel free to call it out, reject any conclusions based on it, and move on.

That's pretty close to a conspiracy theory - especially when the source of this story also claims Omar married her brother. And also in that thread you dismiss CBS, when their story is consistent with known facts, and the claim is not exceptional.
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Fair enough. Put me down for "pretty close to a conspiracy theory". Also known as "not actually a conspiracy theory". Also known as "don't really care about it that much".

I'll happily stipulate that Omar is a legal immigrant with no marital shenanigans in her past. If that turns out to be wrong, I doubt it will matter much in the grand scheme of things. I doubt she'd even end up deported. Which would be mildly annoying, but not actually that big of a deal.

On the other hand, I think dismissing social media history out of hand is a bad practice and should be avoided. In cases like this one, the social media claim is stupendously weak and should be dismissed on that basis, not because it's a social media claim. I'm not going to change my position on that, no matter how hard you try to twist my very limite apologetic into support for this particular claim.

And I think that CBS is not your friend, no matter what they're reporting on and no matter how truthy it seems to you. I'm also not going to change my position on that, no matter how plausible CBS seems to you.
 
theprestige said:
jimbob said:
From that thread:



​

In context, I struggle for any interpretation other than phiwum's, that you are implying that Omar an illegal immigrant.
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I was begging the question. It's a logical fallacy. Feel free to call it out, reject any conclusions based on it, and move on.

That's pretty close to a conspiracy theory - especially when the source of this story also claims Omar married her brother. And also in that thread you dismiss CBS, when their story is consistent with known facts, and the claim is not exceptional.
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Fair enough. Put me down for "pretty close to a conspiracy theory". Also known as "not actually a conspiracy theory". Also known as "don't really care about it that much".

I'll happily stipulate that Omar is a legal immigrant with no marital shenanigans in her past. If that turns out to be wrong, I doubt it will matter much in the grand scheme of things. I doubt she'd even end up deported. Which would be mildly annoying, but not actually that big of a deal.

On the other hand, I think dismissing social media history out of hand is a bad practice and should be avoided. In cases like this one, the social media claim is stupendously weak and should be dismissed on that basis, not because it's a social media claim. I'm not going to change my position on that, no matter how hard you try to twist my very limite apologetic into support for this particular claim.

And I think that CBS is not your friend, no matter what they're reporting on and no matter how truthy it seems to you. I'm also not going to change my position on that, no matter how plausible CBS seems to you.
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You used that logical fallacy to support the claim that Omar was an illegal immigrant, which had been posted by a conspiracy theorist, with the evidence based on one easily-doctored screenshot of an ambiguous social-media post.

If we're using the metaphor of "flirting" with a conspiracy theory, it is "flirting" by taking it out for a candlelit meal and asking if it wants to go back to your place afterwards.
 
It's pathetic that Trumpublicans are so into their dear leader that they defend the selling of nuclear secrets to Saudi Arabia, calling indictments related to it as "process crimes."
 
jimbob said:
You used that logical fallacy to support the claim that Omar was an illegal immigrant, which had been posted by a conspiracy theorist, with the evidence based on one easily-doctored screenshot of an ambiguous social-media post.
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You're doing a few things wrong here.

The first is, you're misunderstanding what begging the question means, which question I was begging, or both.

I was begging the question that Omar is here illegally. Which is to say, I took that claim as proven, without actually bothering to prove it. The point was not to support that claim, but to support the claim that it's not racist to tell Omar to go back home.

Now, this is of course very naughty, and I shouldn't have done it. But I did.

What I *didn't* do was try to support the claim that Omar is an illegal immigrant. That's not what begging the question means.

The second is, you're making mistakes with the timeline. I did my little question-begging bit *before* Zig introduced his ambiguous social media post. It was all over before the social media question came up. You're linking together separate events, and separate conversations, to imagine I was making an argument I never actually made.

If we're using the metaphor of "flirting" with a conspiracy theory, it is "flirting" by taking it out for a candlelit meal and asking if it wants to go back to your place afterwards.
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If you put as much effort into figuring out what I'm actually saying as you do into "clever" metaphors, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
 
theprestige said:
You're doing a few things wrong here.

The first is, you're misunderstanding what begging the question means, which question I was begging, or both.

I was begging the question that Omar is here illegally. Which is to say, I took that claim as proven, without actually bothering to prove it. The point was not to support that claim, but to support the claim that it's not racist to tell Omar to go back home.

Now, this is of course very naughty, and I shouldn't have done it. But I did.

What I *didn't* do was try to support the claim that Omar is an illegal immigrant. That's not what begging the question means.

The second is, you're making mistakes with the timeline. I did my little question-begging bit *before* Zig introduced his ambiguous social media post. It was all over before the social media question came up. You're linking together separate events, and separate conversations, to imagine I was making an argument I never actually made.


If you put as much effort into figuring out what I'm actually saying as you do into "clever" metaphors, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
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Unfortunately for you, no one owes you the assumption of the most innocuous explanation for why your referred to Omar as an illegal immigrant.

Instead of railing against those calling you out on it, perhaps you should direct your focus on not saying such ignorant things.
 
johnny karate said:
What you actually did was refer to Omar as an illegal immigrant, and that’s what you’re being called out on.
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Actually, jimbob was calling me out for defending that claim. What I actually did - begging the question - is the opposite of that.

And jimbob was also calling me out for defending the instagram screenshot "evidence", which I absolutely did *not* do.
 
Trump Tweets

Such a great victory in court yesterday on the Russian Hoax, the greatest political scam in the history of our Country. TREASON! Hopefully, the Attorney Generel of the United States, and all of those working with him, will find out, in great detail, what happened. NEVER AGAIN!!!!
 
theprestige said:
Actually, jimbob was calling me out for defending that claim. What I actually did - begging the question - is the opposite of that.

And jimbob was also calling me out for defending the instagram screenshot "evidence", which I absolutely did *not* do.
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I'm not really interested in a hair-splitting semantic debate about what specifically Person A said to Person B.

The bottom line is that you referred to Omar as an illegal immigrant, and that you might now feel misunderstood in your intention is no one's problem but your own.
 
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