What I dislike about modern atheism

[Pixel42]

Tribalism is natural, yes, but so is hitting people over the head and taking their stuff. Civilised people control and override their animal instincts, that's what 'civilised' means. Civilisation has ebbed and flowed many times in human history, after a long flow the shameless displays of barbarism of the last few years suggest there's now going to be a significant ebb.

 

[acbytesla]

I never said it didn't. But we all know who put that bit in there, and it wasn't God.

So what? It is part of his religion. I never said God caused my boss to treat his son like ****. I said his religion did.

You have it backwards. People hate gays, and they 'validate' that hatred by putting/keeping it in their religion. They could easily ignore any parts of the Bible they don't agree with - and they do! The fact that they make a big deal about gays and not the other stuff proves that they want to hate gays. So religion isn't the cause of their moral values, it's the result.

My boss didn't hate his son. He didn't even hate gays having no problem at all hiring several. And I doubt this had anything to do with morals. It did however have everything to do with the influence his religion/church had on him.

 

[Thor 2]

You have it backwards. People hate gays, and they 'validate' that hatred by putting/keeping it in their religion. They could easily ignore any parts of the Bible they don't agree with - and they do! The fact that they make a big deal about gays and not the other stuff proves that they want to hate gays. So religion isn't the cause of their moral values, it's the result.

No I do believe you have it arse about backwards.

Some people do hate gays, and some of these use religious text to justify their dislike. Religious scriptures penned by Stone Age jerks who had some hang ups I imagine. In order to justify their hatred the modern day homophobes have to believe it is a voluntary affliction, hence the "choosing to be gay" mindset.

Thankfully most folk today, in more enlightened societies, don't have this hatred. This is why same sex marriage is now legal in many countries. You have heard of this I assume?

 

[Puppycow]

I am an atheist because I know its common sense that if there's zero proof of something there's no reason to believe its true. Therefore since I have yet to see any serious evidence for any deity's existence I have no reason to believe in any god.

I'm glad that atheism is no on the rise but it seems that many people (specifically young people) are becoming atheists simply because its edgy. Because christianity is the status quo religion so being an atheist is the counterculture to this. Or because people want to p**s off their parents. Or because they got dragged into church in their youth.

People should choose what they want to believe through critical thinking and what conclusions they come up with on their own. If people blindly follow atheism because its trendy right now then they're no better than religious followers.

Yeah, I kinda doubt that. There are many good reasons to avoid organized religion. Whether it's "edgy" or not doesn't really enter into it.

 

[Thor 2]

Yeah, I kinda doubt that. There are many good reasons to avoid organized religion. Whether it's "edgy" or not doesn't really enter into it.

I kinda doubt it too, having seen nothing to support the notion. I wonder what experiences MrFliop draws from to lead him to this hypothesis.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Well, I guess there are the satanists if you want a debatably edgy atheist group. I suppose Wicca used to be one, way back, with its hitting all the right satanist tropes just right to trigger a fundie grandma or such.

BUT, more importantly, unlike in medieval strawmen, nobody ever actually said, "yeah, I know Jesus is the real thing, but I WANT to burn in hell for all eternity, dammit." Not even the satanists.

What I'm getting at is that, sure, one may join some "edgy" group instead of going through the motions to fit into the congregation group. But I think it's pretty safe to say that at the point where that's even a realistic choice, one is already pretty sure that it's a safe choice. I.e., they've already stopped believing.

Or in other words, even if one decides to join some group that is in some way cooler than some other group, that's not why they became an atheist. It's rather a consequence (out of many possible) of having already become one.

 

[8enotto]

Atheist is no gods, Satanism is Satan as the god. they are dark side theists.

And the ones I knew did " christian values " far better than the bible beaters. They were respectful and likable, unlike their bright side counterparts.

I never pried into the activities of theirs, but the area was rife with weird symbols and evidence of rituals. Some of that I suspect was placed just to scare the opposition.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Not reeeaally. Just about every organization who calls themselves "satanists" are just piss-taking atheists.

They used to be a lot more popular in the day, before atheism became mainstream. And the line that if you don't brown-nose Jesus, you're working for Satan use to be more mainstream too. So a lot of people just went, basically, "screw it, if that makes me a servant of Satan, sure, screw it, I'm one."

You can listen to, for example, Aron Ra about how he was one back in the day.

But regardless of what the organization professes to believe in, think about it from the point of view of a potential recruit. If you thought the Bible is the real thing, what the church says is true, and you'll burn in Hell for all eternity if you join any other religious group than the "right" ones... would you actually join the Satanists? Reeaally? Seems to me like you've already got to have decided that what the priest says might not actually be entirely true

 

[acbytesla]

Atheist is no gods, Satanism is Satan as the god. they are dark side theists.

And the ones I knew did " christian values " far better than the bible beaters. They were respectful and likable, unlike their bright side counterparts.

I never pried into the activities of theirs, but the area was rife with weird symbols and evidence of rituals. Some of that I suspect was placed just to scare the opposition.

What makes you think Satan is the dark side? The God of the bible was far more evil in my view than Satan was.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

AFAIK, there's exactly one instance of Satan actually killing anyone, and that's in Job, and it's because God told him to.

Actually, come to think about it, off the top of the head, that may also be the only story where he does anything bad at all. (Other than "bad" as in disobeying God.) I mean, even in Revelation, he's basically the hero.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Also, just for the record, if you want an actual religion where the bible "God" is the bad guy, try one of the gnostic flavours.

Especially the Cainites used to be a fun bunch. Their idea was that this world was a trap made by two fallen lesser divines, and the rules in the Bible were here to trap you here in their realm. The way to free yourself was basically to disobey all that you could get away with. Like, DO adultery, DO covet your neighbour's ass, etc. They literally worshipped Cain, the world's first murderer.

Oh, and Judas was the good guy. Because he's the one that will get the man killed in which Jesus is stuck. You know, so he can return to the upper heaven where he belongs.

Not many gnostics around nowadays, sadly, and obviously not all were that extreme in the first place. But still, fun lot.

 

[8enotto]

Gents, I can only go by what I seen of this group in California. Dark side is more tongue in cheek, as I seen them doing little more than changing names and symbols.

They had no outer identity like dress or jewelry, just folks on the street really, my interests were to make a paycheck at the same place as them, the rest was just casual chat.

I took what he said as what he believed as it didn't affect me if it wasn't the truth. It was a cool alternative that by design or error wasn't much different that those who feared them.

That was funny to me.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Gents, I can only go by what I seen of this group in California. Dark side is more tongue in cheek, as I seen them doing little more than changing names and symbols.

They had no outer identity like dress or jewelry, just folks on the street really, my interests were to make a paycheck at the same place as them, the rest was just casual chat.

I took what he said as what he believed as it didn't affect me if it wasn't the truth. It was a cool alternative that by design or error wasn't much different that those who feared them.

That was funny to me.

Was this recent? There's been different batches of Satanism over the years.

The newest is the Satanic Temple, who are the ones doing the Baphomet statues and suing Christians for overreach. They seem like a nice bunch, more gentle trolling than anything.

Past Satanists were edgier and less deliberately ironic, even if the idea was the same. Back then you really had to sell it to be taken seriously.

 

[8enotto]

About 1992 actually. To me recent I guess but in reality about 30 years. They were.not online that I knew of so it was a local thing.

I seen a bit of homes and personal lives but wasn't asking tacky questions on the ' scary stuff ' like animal sacrifice. That would have shown disrespect they didn't toss at anyone else.

 

[Thor 2]

Sounds like those Satanist have had lots of fun. Us atheists are a quiet lot by comparison. I think the modern atheists don't even go in for baby eating - what a drag.