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Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

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ceptimus said:
I'm not in favour of re-running referendums because people failed to educate themselves properly prior to voting. And your assertion that Brexit will ruin their lives is just that - an assertion, and a wildly hysterical one at that.

In any case, all this re-run stuff is just code for not wanting to leave. Only those who were on the losing side first time round want a re-run, and many of those who do want a re-run would refuse to accept the result as final even after they lose for a second time. Certainly none of them would accept that if they did win a re-run then that would be one win for each side with a third referendum then needed as a decider.

It's just the same with the SNP's demands for another referendum on leaving the UK. As long as they exist as a party, they will continue to demand referendum after referendum, using any excuse as a pretext for such. Right now that excuse is Brexit: after Brexit they will find some other reason. But if they should ever win, then that will be the end of the matter as far as they're concerned - there will be no calls from them for a re-run because, 'people didn't understand what they were voting for.'
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You know nothing about Scotland or the SNP (or the EU it seems) better to say nothing and be thought an idiot that open your mouth and prove it.
 
I see ceptimus is continuing his rewriting of history.

I suppose it's the only way to defend what is actually happening.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I agree that there's no justification for repeating the first referendum...
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Jack by the hedge said:
I agree there's no moral case for a repeat of the first referendum...
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Apologies for the double post. Is it just me, or do others find their posts sometimes don't appear? In this case I wrote and posted, page didn't refresh, I reloaded it, post didn't appear, re-wrote and posted again, didn't appear, refreshed page and 2nd post appeared, then this morning I find both versions.

It's a bit like being moderated in an unmoderated thread. Weird. Only me?
 
ceptimus said:
I see. You excluded two leave supporting (at the time of the EU election) parties and therefore asserted that remain got more votes.
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Gee, how surprising, another one of your lies. :rolleyes:

Despite your seemingly desperate need to believe such, not all supporters of the Labour and Conservative parties support Brexit, let alone BoJo's crash out plan.
 
Nessie said:
When the SNP demanded Police Scotland recruit 2000 extra police, they had to recruit people who would have otherwise been rejected and the police college at Tulliallan could barely cope. Training standards, especially fitness, plummeted. There was so much trouble with new recruits misbehaving, that the college went into lockdown, with all recruits confined to their rooms, lights out by 9pm.

It is not possible to recruit 20K decent well trained cops in 3 years.
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Hey guaranteed food access might be a winning recruitment strategy. That might help keep the quality of recruits up.
 
ceptimus said:
Well, the vast majority of votes in the 2017 General Election went to the parties who promised to honour the result of the 2016 referendum - so there's that. And then in the recent EU elections, the clear winner was the Brexit party - so there's that too.
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Brexit Ltd. got 40% of seats. More seats went to anti-No deal parties.
 
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ceptimus said:
True, and that's why I said that, in my opinion, Labour pivoted the correct way for them. They had to abandon their nonsensical ambivalent position which was losing them votes on both sides, so they've chosen the side that most of their supporters are on.
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How do you think they've done that?

But that still stands a chance of losing them many of their northern constituency seats in the next election.
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No it doesn't, any more than die-hard Conservatives who favour Remain are going to desert them.
 
catsmate said:
I think it's obvious that mere facts won't alter the opinions of Brexiteers.
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Or Tories judging by their latest escapades to preserve their precious Union.

2014: Don't vote for independence - you won't be in the EU

2019: Don't vote for independence - you will be in the EU
 
Reading this morning that if a VONC was passed prior to Oct 31 and an election had to be held around that time that an extension to the Brexit deadline would be legally required (or at least the Gov would have to ask for one)

Of course the ERG and other Brexiteers don't like the idea, because they only believe in democracy when it suits them.
 
"No Deal" just means a continuing inability to agree a deal with the EU, once no longer a member of the EU.

Once the UK leaves, the harsh reality of trying to work with the EU without any deal will start in earnest. It will not go well, for the UK and the EU.

The leavers will blame the EU. The remainers will blame the leavers. We are doomed to years of bickering and uncertainty.
 
The EU has ruled out reopening the deal agreed with Theresa May, including the British-designed backstop, which is seen in Brussels as a major concession to the UK.

Brussels sources hope soft-Brexit Tories will prevent the UK leaving without a deal, but think the EU has no choice but to stick to its strategywhen faced with “impossible demands” from London.

Johnson was “playing in the casino”, said the senior diplomat, who argued that the Brexit process, from David Cameron’s referendum to Boris Johnson’s no-deal pledge, was a bid for Conservative party unity. “How can you negotiate with a partner who has just proven that he is completely irrational and just willing to destroy things to keep his party completely united?” they said.
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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ect-dominic-raabs-easier-no-deal-brexit-claim

This has, ultimately, been the source of almost all the acrimony here. The conservative party has been more or less completely split and more moderate and conservative members and those further to the right, who would seriously contemplate leaving the party were it accept being in the single market. The more conservative and moderate members were far more willing to consider voting against its own government.

Theresa May wasn't hamstrung because of inaction, rather her inaction was cause by her inability to do anything since any decision that could be made, which was effectively to either explicitly leave without a deal or compromise and achieve a deal, would risk losing the support of one or the other factions. Despite his bluster, Boris is still in the same position that Theresa was. In fact his position is probably weaker.

His only end-goal seems to be leave the EU without a deal, by default, blame the EU for it and thus absolve the Brexiter's that voted down Theresa May's brexit bill for effectively forcing a no deal. All this in an attempt to keep them from leaving the party, thus keeping the party united no matter the cost to the UK.
 
Been saying this since the word go.
This has never been about the country, it's been about the Tory party and its divisions.
 
Arcade22 said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ect-dominic-raabs-easier-no-deal-brexit-claim

This has, ultimately, been the source of almost all the acrimony here. The conservative party has been more or less completely split and more moderate and conservative members and those further to the right, who would seriously contemplate leaving the party were it accept being in the single market. The more conservative and moderate members were far more willing to consider voting against its own government.

Theresa May wasn't hamstrung because of inaction, rather her inaction was cause by her inability to do anything since any decision that could be made, which was effectively to either explicitly leave without a deal or compromise and achieve a deal, would risk losing the support of one or the other factions. Despite his bluster, Boris is still in the same position that Theresa was. In fact his position is probably weaker.

His only end-goal seems to be leave the EU without a deal, by default, blame the EU for it and thus absolve the Brexiter's that voted down Theresa May's brexit bill for effectively forcing a no deal. All this in an attempt to keep them from leaving the party, thus keeping the party united no matter the cost to the UK.
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It occurs to me that all of these hardline Brexiteers who think it is beyond the pale to leave on anything but the most destructive basis were all perfectly happy to stand for the Tories on a manifesto of remaining in the EU when Cameron was leader.

They're all just opportunist *****
 
Nessie said:
"No Deal" just means a continuing inability to agree a deal with the EU, once no longer a member of the EU.
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This.

Bizarrely, the cult has become imbued with the idea that No Deal is somehow a goal to be achieved, instead of simply marking a failure to build the bridge before the hurtling train arrives.
 
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