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I Need A Chemist and A Vet...

LostAngeles

Penultimate Amazing
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Joined
May 22, 2004
Messages
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This morning, I woke up to find that there's a spot in my hair where the purple has vanished. I haven't washed it since Monday morning (my hair is damaged and dry, so I only wash it every two-three days). The only thing I can think of is that my cat occasionally chews on my hair and he was doing it fairly vigorously last night. This implies that somehow, something in cat spit has broken down the color.

He seems perfectly all right, but I'm still thinking he needs a vet trip just in case.

Seriously though, is that actually possible?

Manic Panic ingredients: Manic Panic Cream Hair Colour
Ingredients:
Aqua, Cera Alba, Cetearyl Alcohol and Ceteareth-20, Humulus Lupulus, Achillea Millefolium, Anthemis Nobilis, Acetic Acid, Methylparaben. May contain the following: CI 42090, CI 61570, CI 15510, CI 17200, CI 47005.
 
You need a botanist no a chemist.
 
Well, there would be a chemical reaction with the kitty spittle and the dye and a vet would know what's in kitty spittle
 
LostAngeles said:
Well, there would be a chemical reaction with the kitty spittle and the dye
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That isn't helpful since most of the stuff appears to be plant extracts which means I don't have a clue what they are

and a vet would know what's in kitty spittle
Click to expand...

Water and a number of enzymes. Probably some salts.
 
geni said:
Water and a number of enzymes. Probably some salts.
Click to expand...
Yup. About that.

Something enzymatic in the saliva might break down a plant dye. Or the remarkably abrasive tongue might just have stripped off a surface layer.

Do you really think anyone would be allowed to sell you something to slather all over your hair, which was toxic to cats in a tiny dose? I don't think so. (Cats do have slightly odd metabolism and there are things that aren't good for them, but this is taking paranoid fantasy a little far, methinks.)

Rolfe.
 
LostAngeles said:
Well, there would be a chemical reaction with the kitty spittle and the dye and a vet would know what's in kitty spittle
Click to expand...

OK, I'm a vet, so I'll take a stab at it.

As far as I know, there aren't any components of saliva in cats that aren't in humans, i.e. mainly:
1. Lots of sodium bicarbonate
2. Amylase
3. mucin (the protein that makes it slimy)
4. water

There are small amounts of bunches of other proteins, electrolytes, urea, ammonia, but these are a pretty small percentage.

Of the above, I would bet on the amylase as the culprit. That is a digestive enzyme that digests starches into glucose. It only works in an alkaline environment, supplied by the copious amounts of Na bicarb in saliva.

Why don't you try cutting a small amount of your hair, placing it in a small glass, and soaking it in your own saliva? See if the color disappears overnight. Good experiment, and you can let us all know the results.


ETA: By the way, how long is your hair? If you have hair over 6 inches long, you need to stop your cat from chewing on it. Long, linear foreign bodies can be fatal to cats. Dogs as well, but I don't hear of many dogs chewing on their owner's hair. If the hair gets trapped at one end (commonly, it gets wrapped around the base of the tongue) and the rest is swallowed, the hair will act like a wire saw on the intestines, causing perforation and death. Not to alarm you overmuch, but I see this a lot as a veterinary surgeon.
 
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Your cat is indeed the culprit. This is known as 'Nocturnal Feline Follicular Décor', and is a disorder which causes your cat to wait until you are asleep at night, and then redo your hair in strange and bizarre ways, using either kitchen chemicals or hair products stolen from nearby shops.

Did you never wonder how your hair got purple in the first place?
 
Rolfe said:
Yup. About that.

Something enzymatic in the saliva might break down a plant dye. Or the remarkably abrasive tongue might just have stripped off a surface layer.

Do you really think anyone would be allowed to sell you something to slather all over your hair, which was toxic to cats in a tiny dose? I don't think so. (Cats do have slightly odd metabolism and there are things that aren't good for them, but this is taking paranoid fantasy a little far, methinks.)

Rolfe.
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Well, since he was fine, I wasn't too concerned. He didn't vomit, he was normal, and he would have already metabolized it. Paranoid?
 
I'm not a vet or a chemist, but I am a dyer and that dye you describe is relatively safe. It's an acid dye, which is a "class" of dye. It is supposed to dye fairly permanently but perhaps for some reason it merely coated the fibers (in this case your hair) instead of penetrating the way it is intended. As I understand it the dye is fairly benign once the dyeing process is over. For some excellent dye info try this site: Acid Dye Safety. There is also a company called ProChem that sells dyes, and they have a lot of info on dyes and safety.

This is one of my favorite classes of dye and a lot of that is due to safety and ease of proper disposal of dyestuffs. My guess is your cat is just fine.
 
I didn't mean to come off so harsh on Rolfe. I thought Rolfe was outright calling me paranoid, when at worst, she was implying it. :p

These are the genius cats who jump into nightstands, fall off of everything, and if they can find a way to break something, it'll be broken. If there was a way to be allergic to the dye, they'd find it. My main concern was, "Is this even possible, or was it something else."

However, I do appreciate knowing about cats and long hair. I'll start wrapping up my hair at night so he can't get to it. I think it's just about six inches, but I'm not sure.

That and I'd like to keep the rest of my purple, plzkthx.
 
flume said:
Do cats have amylase in their saliva? How about dogs? I thought they had none or virtually none. I would be interested in details.
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Hmm, looked it up AFTER I posted, and you are quite correct. Neither cats nor dogs have alpha-amylase in their saliva. They do have lots of Na Bicarb, a good bit of urea and ammonia (from their carnivorous diet), and lots of mucin, minor bits of proteolytic enzymes that don't seem to do much. So I'll change my opinion and say that it was... the NaBicarb...Yeah, that's the ticket...
 
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LostAngeles said:
Well, there would be a chemical reaction with the kitty spittle and the dye and a vet would know what's in kitty spittle
Click to expand...

Manic Panic is totally safe for cats, as mine used to lick the lid all the time, if I was dumb enough to leave it out (I also coloured one of my cats blue in highschool, and anothe one pink). And I would sometimes get spots without colour where my cat would groom my head.

What it most likely is (and this is coming from a former hairstylist), is just that the saliva is wet. It would be the same thing as if you wet a washcloth and rubbed. Water is the WORST thing for your hair, as far as keeping colour in (and oils and such). I'm assuming that saliva would only be a bit worse.

Which Manic Panic are you using? I've been using fudge as of late, I love Red Corvette, and Purple Haze.

ETA: And as an aside, using cold water to shampoo with is going to help your colour last longer.
 
John Bentley said:
Hmm, looked it up AFTER I posted, and you are quite correct. Neither cats nor dogs have alpha-amylase in their saliva. They do have lots of Na Bicarb, a good bit of urea and ammonia (from their carnivorous diet), and lots of mucin, minor bits of proteolytic enzymes that don't seem to do much. So I'll change my opinion and say that it was... the NaBicarb...Yeah, that's the ticket...
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This is off topic but do individual dogs have hugely varying amounts of mucin in their saliva? I ask because my dog deposits Toxic Dog Slime (tm) on everything he licks. I've never encountered such a slimy dog. Even scrubbing with soap and hot water, it takes a long time to get his bowls clean. The stuff is amazing - I'm thinking NASA could use it as some sort of high tech lubricant in place of WD-40. :)
 
Jas said:
Manic Panic is totally safe for cats, as mine used to lick the lid all the time, if I was dumb enough to leave it out (I also coloured one of my cats blue in highschool, and anothe one pink). And I would sometimes get spots without colour where my cat would groom my head.

What it most likely is (and this is coming from a former hairstylist), is just that the saliva is wet. It would be the same thing as if you wet a washcloth and rubbed. Water is the WORST thing for your hair, as far as keeping colour in (and oils and such). I'm assuming that saliva would only be a bit worse.

Which Manic Panic are you using? I've been using fudge as of late, I love Red Corvette, and Purple Haze.

ETA: And as an aside, using cold water to shampoo with is going to help your colour last longer.
Click to expand...


I used Plum Passion. I did it on Saturday and aside from that one spot, it's now down from a dark, full purple to "HOLY CRAP! PURPLE!" so it's kind of a bummer. I'm one of those people that thrives on hot showers. I'll try to adjust.

Next time, I'm thinking After Midnight Blue.
 
John Bentley said:
As far as I know, there aren't any components of saliva in cats that aren't in humans, i.e. mainly:
1. Lots of sodium bicarbonate
Click to expand...
Wait a minute ... human saliva contains baking soda?!

But sodium bicarbonate is a weak base! Why did my high school biology teacher tell me that human saliva is very weakly acidic?
 
tracer said:
Wait a minute ... human saliva contains baking soda?!

But sodium bicarbonate is a weak base! Why did my high school biology teacher tell me that human saliva is very weakly acidic?
Click to expand...

I always thought it was slightly basic to counteract the acid left behind by all them bacterias that eat the goobers stuck between your teeth.
 
tracer said:
Wait a minute ... human saliva contains baking soda?!

But sodium bicarbonate is a weak base! Why did my high school biology teacher tell me that human saliva is very weakly acidic?
Click to expand...

He was either wrong, or you fell asleep during that part.

Dragonrock said:
I always thought it was slightly basic to counteract the acid left behind by all them bacterias that eat the goobers stuck between your teeth.
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Correct. That's one reason chewing gum helps fight plaque. Makes more saliva, keeps the saliva basic, less bacterial growth, less enamel erosion from acid. It also helps heart burn, but I still like my Nexium!

Cats' saliva is even more basic than a human's.
 
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