Mueller Investigation pt 6

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Minoosh said:
They always have the out of saying, "I'm for immigration, just not ILLEGAL immigration."

I tend to think illegal immigrants are the ones with the most enterprise and gumption, but that sentiment is not universally shared.
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But that's just a cover-up of their actual bigotry. They don't care about illegal white immigrants.
 
Elvis666 said:
It's hard to participate here and also express a conservative view. It is automatically equated with a red hat with orange skin. I would suspect I am not the only lurker who has stopped commenting on anything remotely connected to politics.To many members here, a conservative Democrat is the equivalent of a snipe.
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I know what you're saying and don't want to see conservative voices crowded out. But a couple of recent resident conservatives were obviously posting just to troll liberals. They would not make positive claims and back them up. Evidence just wasn't their thing.

The Shrike said:
Huh? Present a view, defend it with evidence. This is critical thinking 101.

If you can't defend it then you probably shouldn't hold it, or at least you should acknowledge that your reasons for holding the view are irrational.

If you have well-supported conservative views, PLEASE share them here. It will help me figure out what conservative means these days.
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I'd like to see this too. IMO, it's the Republicans that first took the stance that thwarting Democrats was their main goal. On health care and stimulus they just pouted despite "the mandate" being a conservative plan.

Some GOP senators do seem to be taking a stand on certain national security issues, such as not tolerating other governments meddling in U.S. politics. But not enough to actually criticize Trump. Lindsey Graham is a massive mystery to me. His mancrush on McCain I understood, but not the way he's become Trump's lapdog.
 
Part of the problem with the claim, it's only illegal immigrants that are the problem, is that brown and black immigrants are denied the same access to legal immigration means.

When Hispanic parents and spouses of US citizens are denied the ability to immigrate here legally, yet a certain British spouse we all know can get a green card, it makes me ask, why is that? (Not that I don't love Rincewind and I'm glad he's here in the US.)
 
The Shrike said:
Huh? Present a view, defend it with evidence. This is critical thinking 101.

If you can't defend it then you probably shouldn't hold it, or at least you should acknowledge that your reasons for holding the view are irrational.

If you have well-supported conservative views, PLEASE share them here. It will help me figure out what conservative means these days.
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Thanks for the response. Notice that the other two I got automatically mentioned Trump.

Alas, I've tried do do what you ask, but the dialog immediately turns into some argument the responders are having with a Trump-like voice in their heads.
 
Minoosh said:
Lately it seems like a lot of threads are just morphing into something completely different.
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That's... not a recent problem.

Minoosh said:
So, Mueller. I was satisfied with his appearance. I find him to be a credible and fair investigator.
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I thought that his appearance left a lot to be desired, but put the blame for that far more fully on Barr and the Republican Party than him. As for the second part there... "credible and fair" sounds alright, though there's much valid criticism to made about some of his decisions.

Minoosh said:
It's great to know that counterintelligence agents are not playing dead for Russia. Trump continues to deny Russia's utterly obvious manipulation of U.S. politics. Of course he really knows it's happening and condones it. Happily GOP senators are not as amused.
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Some. It was a pleasant surprise to see even one Republican focus on that direction, though, in the hearing. Still, we've been given reason to believe that Trump's being kept largely out of the loop when it comes to counterintelligence efforts related to Russia... repeatedly, I think.

Minoosh said:
I think it's really not looking good that so many Trump confederates are ignoring subpoenas. They don't have to reveal anything privileged. To me it looks like they're scared.
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There was, of course, the glam shot of Hope Hicks and the depiction of the "dilemma" she was in as if the choices were equal.

Either way, it's actually hard to say if it's "scared" or that the people in question simply do not respect the law.
 
Elvis666 said:
Thanks for the response. Notice that the other two I got automatically mentioned Trump.

Alas, I've tried do do what you ask, but the dialog immediately turns into some argument the responders are having with a Trump-like voice in their heads.
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You are in a Trump thread, you know. Though I'm happy to talk to/about conservatives who aren't either pro-Trump or refusing to condemn the man.
 
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Elvis666 said:
Thanks for the response. Notice that the other two I got automatically mentioned Trump.

Alas, I've tried do do what you ask, but the dialog immediately turns into some argument the responders are having with a Trump-like voice in their heads.
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As a random example, shall I guess that what you consider being a conservative would be more along the lines of say... given stuff like this paper -

DIVERSITY MANAGEMENT, CREATIVITY AND INNOVATIONCREATIVITY AND INNOVATION MANAGEMENT
The Paradox of Diversity Management, Creativity and Innovation
Nigel Bassett-Jones
This conceptual and discursive paper argues that diversity is a recognizable source of creativity and innovation that can provide a basis for competitive advantage. On the other hand, diversity is also a cause of misunderstanding, suspicion and conflict in the workplace that can result in absenteeism, poor quality, low morale and loss of competitiveness. Firms seeking competitive advantage therefore face a paradoxical situation. If they embrace diversity, they risk workplace conflict, and if they avoid diversity, they risk loss of competitiveness. The advantages and disadvantages associated with workforce diversity put organizations in a position of managing a paradoxical situation. To give support to this assertion, the paper considers what is meant by diversity, how it is best managed, what its relationship with creativity and innovation might be and how the problems created by the management of diversity, creativity and innovation might be resolved.
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You'll have a preference for not embracing diversity's potential boons to creativity and innovation as much, preferring safety, workplace cohesion, and productivity?
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
But that's just a cover-up of their actual bigotry.
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In some cases, maybe most cases, you're right. But not all of them.

Skeptic Ginger said:
They don't care about illegal white immigrants.
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They don't notice illegal white immigrants.

In some communities rural white people who had occasion to work alongside Latino laborers got over some of their fear. Was that fear race-based? Probably. Yet I don't condemn them. I can remember holding stereotyped views of Mexicans, back when I didn't know any.

I think there's also atavistic fear of people who speak languages other than English. How many times have I heard people say that immigrants refuse to learn English? That's ignorance ... which doesn't necessarily mean evil.
 
Aridas said:
Still, we've been given reason to believe that Trump's being kept largely out of the loop when it comes to counterintelligence efforts related to Russia... repeatedly, I think.
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I hope he's being kept out of the loop regarding any secret information. I'd be tempted to feed him fake intel just to see who he blabs it to.

I continue to harbor deep suspicions that the competent generals he's driven off are really just happily retired into private life. Anyone who's devoted their whole life to keeping American safe has to be deeply alarmed with this presidency. It's the one issue I can see as a wedge between Trump and GOP senators.

Sometimes I think that if Trump wins and the GOP prevails, they will dump him ASAP.

Aridas said:
Either way, it's actually hard to say if it's "scared" or that the people in question simply do not respect the law.
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Well, I hope that Dems will continue issuing subpoenas to cover their side of the street. But IMO it can't be their sole focus. There has to be a positive message.

ETA: I had low expectations for the Mueller questioning. A few important points were made on national TV, which I think helps the Democrats.
 
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theprestige said:
I try not to peddle conspiracy theories, anyway.
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You flirted pretty close with it here:

theprestige said:
Contemporary accounts from the principals are always important evidence, regardless of the manner of their publication.

Social media history in particular can be informative, since it's a record that potentially dates from before the inception of the principal's current narrative. The claim that a person had no contact with someone else prior to Year B is easily debunked by a social media history that shows them together in Year A.
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...referring to Instagram "evidence" that Ilhan Omar married her brother.
 
Cabbage said:
You flirted pretty close with it here:









...referring to Instagram "evidence" that Ilhan Omar married her brother.
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Meh.

I'm agnostic about the evidence in this particular case. I'm content to let the question play out however it plays out.

My post was more about the principle of not knee jerk rejecting social media history simply because it's social media history. I'm glad some people put in the effort to actually argue that it's weak evidence (or not evidence at all) in this specific case. Social media history as evidence should be taken on a case by case basis.
 
Minoosh said:
Well, I hope that Dems will continue issuing subpoenas to cover their side of the street. But IMO it can't be their sole focus. There has to be a positive message.
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Of course. There is.

The House Democrats have been doing lots of legislating, on top of the many investigations that are ongoing, in other words, and in 2018, issues like Health Care easily trumped Trump in their focus... Because, well, the Democrat's agenda is actually helping the people, not specifically political gain. That Trump and McConnell are blocking things elsewhere as part of a cynical political strategy is not an indictment of them at all. That they're not upstaging Trump in mass media as he's provided a constant whirlwind of "focus on MEMEMEMEMEME" is a separate problem entirely.
 
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Aridas said:
That they're not upstaging Trump in mass media as he's provided a constant whirlwind of "focus on MEMEMEMEMEME" is a separate problem entirely.
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Maybe they can fight "meme" with memes. "Putin's Mitch" and the 2-headed eagle in one day - not bad.
 
smartcooky said:
He's no mystery to me... he's nothing more than a moral windsock
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Maybe, but I still think it's weird that someone so drawn to John McCain can be at all drawn to Trump. I mean, he shares 90 percent of Trump's political platform so it's not too surprising, but Trump has been vicious to McCain. It's not just that he supports most of Trump's agenda; he is Trump's chief apologist, while McCain may have been Trump's harshest Republican critic.
 
Minoosh said:
Lindsey Graham is a massive mystery to me. His mancrush on McCain I understood, but not the way he's become Trump's lapdog.
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Well, that's what magascum are like. They don't have a strong sense of patriotism or morality. That's why their kind aren't real Americans. Their weak characters make them susceptible to anything. McCain was dominate so he tucked his tail and followed him. McCain died; he found another dog to show his belly to.
 
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