Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[Klimax]

Brexit party is definitely party of great brains:
Brexit Party MEP says Royal Navy should attack EU fishing boats

 

[ceptimus]

No such thing as a soft and hard remain.

There was no such thing as soft and hard Brexit until after Remain lost the referendum: it was a clever invention by remain fanatics - a way of splitting the leave faction.

Remain have milked the idea for all it's worth ever since - they've repeated phrases like 'disastrous hard brexit' and 'going over the cliff edge' until the concepts have begun to soak into general public consciousness. Very clever propaganda by them.

 

[jimbob]

Brexit party is definitely party of great brains:
Brexit Party MEP says Royal Navy should attack EU fishing boats

And of course, the UK was one of the few countries to allow the selling of fishing quotas, in such a way that the other EU fishing boats bought them.

 

[GlennB]

There was no such thing as soft and hard Brexit until after Remain lost the referendum: it was a clever invention by remain fanatics - a way of splitting the leave faction.

wtf?

 

[The Don]

There was no such thing as soft and hard Brexit until after Remain lost the referendum: it was a clever invention by remain fanatics - a way of splitting the leave faction.

Remain have milked the idea for all it's worth ever since - they've repeated phrases like 'disastrous hard brexit' and 'going over the cliff edge' until the concepts have begun to soak into general public consciousness. Very clever propaganda by them.

No, hard and soft Brexit were in general usage well before the referendum to discriminate between EEA membership or Customs Union membership and the kind of Brexit advocated by the ERG.

 

[catsmate]

Except that didn't happen and Farage himself said that he would want a second referendum if the result was close

Again with the inconvenient facts...

 

[catsmate]

There was no such thing as soft and hard Brexit until after Remain lost the referendum:

Another lie.

 

[ceptimus]

Do you have any cites for 'soft Brexit' or 'hard Brexit' from prior to the referendum?

 

[ceptimus]

Another lie.

Evidence? No, there never is from you - only insults. I notice you never apologised when you wrongly claimed that my facts weren't facts. You continue to make these ridiculous assertions that just make you look stupid.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

There was no such thing as soft and hard Brexit until after Remain lost the referendum: it was a clever invention by remain fanatics - a way of splitting the leave faction.

Remain have milked the idea for all it's worth ever since - they've repeated phrases like 'disastrous hard brexit' and 'going over the cliff edge' until the concepts have begun to soak into general public consciousness. Very clever propaganda by them.

I'm by no means the first to say it, but your memory seems to be letting you down on this. Hard vs Soft Brexit was one of the main talking points of the referendum campaign.

Are you perhaps confusing it with Deal vs No Deal, because absolutely nobody was suggesting we might crash out with No Deal in 2016. Not even after the referendum. Not even after we triggered article 50 and jumped without a parachute. It was all just fine because David Davies was going to knit us a lovely parachute while we plummeted.

And yet here we are, three years later and the EU has agreed to let us move the ground further away a couple of times but we're no closer to having a parachute and have no better plan than "brace for impact".

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Do you have any cites for 'soft Brexit' or 'hard Brexit' from prior to the referendum?

Let me Google that for you:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=hard brexit,no deal brexit

 

[Samson]

Latest from Ladbrokes showing No Deal trending more likely, and beating odds of another referendum

UK to leave EU with no Brexit Deal before Nov 1st
6/4
Another UK EU Referendum before end 2020
2/1
UK to REVOKE Article 50 in 2019
5/2
Another UK EU Referendum before end 2019
10/1

ETA Checking back the only change since july 8 is no deal goes from 5/2 to 3/2

 

[ceptimus]

Let me Google that for you:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=hard brexit,no deal brexit

So you don't. I thought so.

Has anyone been able to find any cites of hard Brexit or soft Brexit from before the referendum using the terms in the same context they've been used since remain lost?

I hope someone can, but I haven't been able to. To give you the incentive to prove me wrong, I'll make the following claim.

I claim that the terms hard Brexit and soft Brexit were invented by remainers after they lost the referendum, and I cite the whole web as evidence.

I genuinely expect to be proved wrong in that claim, but I'm interested to discover who first coined the terms, and when.

 

[a_unique_person]

Evidence? No, there never is from you - only insults. I notice you never apologised when you wrongly claimed that my facts weren't facts. You continue to make these ridiculous assertions that just make you look stupid.

I don't think it was a deliberate lie. More just wishful thinking. Everyone who voted for Brexit had a vague idea of what it meant. They just didn't realise that no-one knew exactly what it did mean.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

https://time.com/4635762/theresa-may-hard-brexit-britain/

The term is thought have been coined more than year before the referendum, in a Feb. 2015 report to HSBC clients by Simon Wells and Liz Martins. In the report, the economists distinguished between hard and soft exits from the E.U.; the former, they said, would be a “huge risk” and “operationally complicated” while the latter is “less risky, but maintains much of the status quo.”

Now, enough of this waste of time.

 

[abaddon]

So you don't. I thought so.

Has anyone been able to find any cites of hard Brexit or soft Brexit from before the referendum using the terms in the same context they've been used since remain lost?

I hope someone can, but I haven't been able to. To give you the incentive to prove me wrong, I'll make the following claim.

I claim that the terms hard Brexit and soft Brexit were invented by remainers after they lost the referendum, and I cite the whole web as evidence.

I genuinely expect to be proved wrong in that claim, but I'm interested to discover who first coined the terms, and when.

Those terms were coined later. For pre-existing delusions. That you would claim that because the term had not existed before is simply dishonest. A swift search reveals that you were promoting a hard brexit before the term was coined. That you think the descriptor is more important that the actual position sans descriptor reveals more than you might have intended.

ETA: Expalin please why the term "Brexit" never appears in 1854. Why is that, exactly?

 

[Lothian]

So you don't. I thought so.

Has anyone been able to find any cites of hard Brexit or soft Brexit from before the referendum using the terms in the same context they've been used since remain lost?

I hope someone can, but I haven't been able to. To give you the incentive to prove me wrong, I'll make the following claim.

I claim that the terms hard Brexit and soft Brexit were invented by remainers after they lost the referendum, and I cite the whole web as evidence.

I genuinely expect to be proved wrong in that claim, but I'm interested to discover who first coined the terms, and when.

Delphic provided a link. There was certainly contradictions on the leave side showing there was no single policy. However it is only post election that leaving without a deal has become a position for some leave supporters. At the time the leave campaign promised a deal (easiest ever). The official leave campaign had at its core the promise that we would have free trade with the EU.
You show us where a hard no deal brexit was put to the British people by the leave campaign as what we would get.
It is not that hard and soft brexits were not convinced before the election. Project fear highlighted some hard brexit consequences. What changed after the election was vote leave accepting and owning hard brexit when before it it was all soft, free trade, no immigration, all our money back.

 

[The Don]

Dr Liam Fox as finally realised that the UK doesn't have enough trade negotiators to make the easiest trade deals in history.

The response is to set up a 2-year training course for people of all ages and experience levels. The salary is "up to £30k" so it's aimed at school leavers or people with similar salary aspirations.

Unlike traditional graduate schemes, no qualifications are needed to sign up to the programme, with the majority of candidates expected to be school leavers aged 18 or over, people switching careers or those looking to work in government for the first time.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ining-scheme-to-find-uks-future-trade-experts

Of course anyone with an ounce of sense would have set up this scheme the moment that Article 50 was triggered so we would have trained - albeit completely inexperienced - negotiators now and not two years into a post no-deal Brexit.

Up against highly experienced trade negotiation teams from China, India, Brazil, the US with decades of experience under their belts we'll have a couple of experienced negotiators supported by kids just out of school. You literally could not make it up

 

[The Don]

Meanwhile, employers are calling for the bar to be lowered for immigrant employees:

The next prime minister should lower the salary threshold for foreign workers in the UK from £30,000 to £20,000, a group of business and education bodies has said.

They say that such a move would help to avoid "acute" skills shortages.

Currently any non-EU citizen working in the UK must earn at least £30,000, but under current proposals this will be extended to EU citizens after Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49007700

 

[The Atheist]

Meanwhile, employers are calling for the bar to be lowered for immigrant employees:

That's assuming any want to go to Britain afterwards.