New Zealanders are refusing to turn over guns under new law

:o
smartcooky said:
They'd be the equivalent of the "Black Disciples" in Chicago
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Well, Black Disciples are murdering somebody(s) almost every single day. Your bikies and racists, and our bikers and racists are not doing that. So I think you mean that your guys are thuggish crime gangs but not so much stone cold killers.

NZ gangs are not like US gangs. Armed Police could just walk right in to their gang headquarters and take their guns, and the gangs won't actively resist that.. at least, not if they know what's good for them.
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What kind of gang keeps an arsenal in a known headquarters or clubhouse?

But really it might depend on what kind of American gang we are talking about. The ability for police to walk in and take guns might be different for a city street gang (Black Disciples) versus a biker gang (Hell's Angels).

It is even possible that some guns would be legally owned and could not be taken.
 
William Parcher said:
:o
Well, Black Disciples are murdering somebody(s) almost every single day. Your bikies and racists, and our bikers and racists are not doing that. So I think you mean that your guys are thuggish crime gangs but not so much stone cold killers.
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Murder is bad for business. Their business is not that, it's mostly drug-running these days. They like to keep all that as quiet and off the radar as possible.


What kind of gang keeps an arsenal in a known headquarters or clubhouse?
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Most gangs.

But really it might depend on what kind of American gang we are talking about. The ability for police to walk in and take guns might be different for a city street gang (Black Disciples) versus a biker gang (Hell's Angels).

It is even possible that some guns would be legally owned and could not be taken.
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True.

"What's these AR-15's used for, tiger?"

"Just for hunting some possums for a hangi, officer!"

"Oh. Right then. You can have them back."
 
William Parcher said:
What kind of gang keeps an arsenal in a known headquarters or clubhouse?
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They don't

William Parcher said:
It is even possible that some guns would be legally owned and could not be taken.
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Nope.

Any guns found in a gang HQ are almost certainly going to be illegal. Why? Because no member of a gang will have a Firearms Licence (they would fail the "fit and proper person" test.) ergo, any firearms in their possession will be illegal
 
smartcooky said:
Nope.

Any guns found in a gang HQ are almost certainly going to be illegal. Why? Because no member of a gang will have a Firearms Licence (they would fail the "fit and proper person" test.) ergo, any firearms in their possession will be illegal
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I was talking about American gangs with guns in their clubhouse. If you look at my post you see near the end I begin talking in reference to American gangs. I don't know enough about NZ gun laws to talk about your gun ownership rights.
 
William Parcher said:
I was talking about American gangs with guns in their clubhouse. If you look at my post you see near the end I begin talking in reference to American gangs. I don't know enough about NZ gun laws to talk about your gun ownership rights.
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When you asked "What kind of gang keeps an arsenal in a known headquarters or clubhouse?" it was in reply to my post about NZ gangs. I reasonably assumed that you would have been on the same train of thought.

A discussion about NZ gangs is, at least tangentially on topic for this thread, but the subject of US gangs is entirely irrelevant.
 
smartcooky said:
When you asked "What kind of gang keeps an arsenal in a known headquarters or clubhouse?" it was in reply to my post about NZ gangs. I reasonably assumed that you would have been on the same train of thought.
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When I asked the rhetorical question of clubhouse arsenals I was asking in reference to both American and NZ gangs. It's too risky for any of them to have much illegal stuff at a known location.

A discussion about NZ gangs is, at least tangentially on topic for this thread, but the subject of US gangs is entirely irrelevant.
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You mentioned Black Disciples in Chicago, Illinois and it went from there.

BTW, I forget to ask. Do your police need a search warrant with probable cause to enter a gang clubhouse, or can they just go in at any time for simple suspicion, or what?
 
William Parcher said:
I'm not familiar with NZ gangs and organized crime. Would those guys be classified as anti-white racists or something like "native supremacists"? Anyway, they probably wouldn't give up their guns either.
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NZ gangs are an odd one, because the chances of having trouble with a gang member is extremely small, unless you're in a different gang.

They keep to the criminal path and ignore average people most of the time.

NZ race-based gangs are more akin to a warrior tribe than many gangs around the world. Meth sales are what drives most of them, and keeping your head down is the best way to get ignored by the cops, so that's what they largely do.

William Parcher said:
BTW, I forget to ask. Do your police need a search warrant with probable cause to enter a gang clubhouse, or can they just go in at any time for simple suspicion, or what?
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They can claim suspicion of drugs to search without a warrant, which is allowed, but they'd normally get a warrant, which is based on their suspicion anyway.
 
William Parcher said:
BTW, I forget to ask. Do your police need a search warrant with probable cause to enter a gang clubhouse, or can they just go in at any time for simple suspicion, or what?
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Search and Surveillance Act 2012, ss 7, 8, 14, 15

The police can enter your place without a warrant in the following situations:

  • Making an arrest – The police can come into your place to search for you and arrest you if they’ve got reasonable grounds to suspect you’ve committed an offence that’s punishable by a prison term. To be able to use this power the police have to have reasonable grounds to believe you’re at the place at that time and that if they don’t enter straightaway either you’ll leave or you’ll interfere with evidence. They can also enter to arrest you if there’s an arrest warrant out for you or if you’ve escaped from prison.

  • Preventing crimes – The police can enter to stop a criminal offence being committed that’s likely to cause someone to be injured, or serious damage to or serious loss of any property.

  • Seizing evidence – The police can enter your place if they’ve arrested you (whether at your place or somewhere else) and they’ve got reasonable grounds to believe there’s evidence at your place that will be destroyed or interfered with if they wait to get a warrant from a court. Also, if they think there’s evidence of a serious crime (one punishable by a jail term of 14 years or more, like rape or aggravated robbery), they can enter to seize it whether they’ve arrested you or not.

  • Emergencies – The police can enter when there’s an emergency threatening somebody’s life or safety.

  • Enforcing specific laws – A number of Acts allow the police or other officials to enter property without a warrant in order to enforce that particular Act, including the Land Transport Act 1998 (see the chapter “Driving and traffic law”), the Immigration Act 2009, and the Animal Welfare Act 1999.

I am pretty sure they would need a warrant (and would have zero trouble getting it) if they were going to raid a Gang HQ looking for illegal guns.
 
All good. Australia will just send over their massive army of disgruntled militia who have been hiding their semi autos for years to support their Kiwi brothers in the forthcoming war against the gun thieving NZ government.........
 
Also for reference, they are not banned in Australia. Just reclassified and you can get the classification if you can show the need.
 
deverett said:
Also for reference, they are not banned in Australia. Just reclassified and you can get the classification if you can show the need.
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Correct. You no doubt know this. Showing the "need" for a semi automatic is an extremely high barrier to reach and they are out of reach for all but the military, police, security services and perhaps some professional feral animal hunters (and I'm not even certain of this last category).
 
lionking said:
Correct. You no doubt know this. Showing the "need" for a semi automatic is an extremely high barrier to reach and they are out of reach for all but the military, police, security services and perhaps some professional feral animal hunters (and I'm not even certain of this last category).
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And as I understand it, even then, the authorities know who you are if you have one, and you can't sell it or trade it to someone who does not meet the criteria to own one.
 
smartcooky said:
And as I understand it, even then, the authorities know who you are if you have one, and you can't sell it or trade it to someone who does not meet the criteria to own one.
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Correct as well.

I do remember the days after Port Arthur quite well. I had a couple of neighbours who vowed to bury their semi automatics rather than surrender them. My only thought was “good”.
 
3point14 said:
They were French? Well, you learn something every day. I thought they were mainly British.
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Well maybe but they needed a Frenchman to actually get them into any kind of fighting force instead of a worthless rabble they started as.
 
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