The Trump Presidency 15

[Belz...]

Voter registration already informs the state how many voters there are.

Ok but how do they do voter registration? It has no relation to the census?

The question is intended to intimidate.

There's significant evidence that the GOP wants to add this question because they know it will reduce participation in the census, making their gerrymandering efforts even more effective.

I'm aware of the intimidation aspect. But non-citizens can't vote, so how would that help gerrymandering?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Ok but how do they do voter registration? It has no relation to the census?





I'm aware of the intimidation aspect. But non-citizens can't vote, so how would that help gerrymandering?

No, voter registration has no relation to the census. People who want to vote actively go register for it.

It would help gerrymandering because districts are drawn by total population, not just citizens. If you can scare people into avoiding the census they will not be counted and they will be absorbed into a district with more people than it should have, reducing the value of each vote in that district. Or possibly removing a district entirely.

 

[Trebuchet]

I might have been told before, but what's the issue with the citizenship question? The questionaire is anonymous, correct? And I can understand why the state would like to know how many voting citizens there are as opposed to total inhabitants.

No, it is absolutely NOT anonymous. That's why I can look at publicly released census data and see who my ancestors were and where they came from.

Trump clearly said that, to permit better drawing of election maps. He said the quite thing quite loud and for everyone to hear.

And, hilariously, he said that the day after Justice Department attorneys defending the question stated in court that that was absolutely not the reason.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Which part?

Slavery? Yes it is.

Women are the property of their fathers, their husbands or the men they were sold to. Yeah, that's Christian doctrine.

Priests being able to molest their altar boys and being protected by the church. It might not be doctrinel but it is reality.

There is a bit of complication here as biblical statements do not equal religious doctrine. There are certainly sects that ignore endorsement by jesus of slavery by talking about how slaves are properly treated, and have doctrine against slavery now. Same with changes in the views on if women should speak in public or hold any authority.

 

[Belz...]

No, voter registration has no relation to the census. People who want to vote actively go register for it.

Sorry, as a Canadian I find that very weird.

It would help gerrymandering because districts are drawn by total population, not just citizens.

I see. Another strange artifact of America's dumb-ass politics.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I see. Another strange artifact of America's dumb-ass politics.

We have the "dumb-ass" idea that a democracy should represent all the people, even resident foreigners, children, and prisoners. Otherwise we'd be ruling people without representation. Even if everybody can't vote they still have representation. It's one of them whatchamacallits, Enlightenment ideals.

 

[carlitos]

Canada does essentially the same thing, allocating provincial seats in the parliament by population, and adjusting them every 10 years.

 

[acbytesla]

There is a bit of complication here as biblical statements do not equal religious doctrine. There are certainly sects that ignore endorsement by jesus of slavery by talking about how slaves are properly treated, and have doctrine against slavery now. Same with changes in the views on if women should speak in public or hold any authority.

I can only go by what is in the bible. There are over a thousand different denominations so in reality there is no such thing as "Christian doctrine" And by the way, Jesus said "slaves obey your masters, even the cruel ones." Also Jesus said he was not changing a jot or a tittle of the law". So its ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die for 2 days.

I figure if God can tell you not to eat shrimp, he can tell you not to own other human beings as property.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm aware of the intimidation aspect. But non-citizens can't vote, so how would that help gerrymandering?

Not just gerrymandering, but also they plan to decrease the numbers of representatives in Congress by claiming (and you know it's coming) that non-citizens (many of which are here legally) don't deserve any representation in Congress. That is not how the Constitution says the results of the census should be used.

If the GOP wants to change how representation is allocated, let them get a Constitutional Amendment. Going through the back door may sound popular to the growing white supremacists population. Given their growing reputation for having their votes count more than the majority Democratic states' votes count, we have every right to say NO.

You want to change it because it seems right, respect democracy and the Constitution, get a Constitutional Amendment.
My second comment is some households have a mix of citizens and non-citizens. The citizens in those households will be afraid to fill out the census.

And privacy? confidentiality? Interesting that in the year running up to the census, ICE is very publicly advertising their use of facial recognition on driver's licenses. Some states decided it was safer to have licensed undocumented immigrants on the street than non-licensed immigrants. State's rights and all, you know, like those GOP hypocrites are always crying about. This racist administration doesn't give a **** about safety on the road. They want to intimidate people who have been here for decades.

 

[Belz...]

We have the "dumb-ass" idea that a democracy should represent all the people, even resident foreigners, children, and prisoners.

You say that as though the idea that you should represent citizens first is silly.

 

[pgwenthold]

Not just gerrymandering, but also they plan to decrease the numbers of representatives in Congress by claiming (and you know it's coming) that non-citizens (many of which are here legally) don't deserve any representation in Congress. That is not how the Constitution says the results of the census should be used.

BTW, I saw something the other day about how the census is mentioned in Article 1 of the constitution, as a responsibility of congress, and not in Article 2, which describes the president.

In other words, what question is on the census should be up to congress, not the president.

 

[ponderingturtle]

You say that as though the idea that you should represent citizens first is silly.

Hey even slaves counted for 3/5, so what percentage should immigrants get?

Take it up with the founders and their BS all men are created equal crap when it should clearly differentiate citizens vs not citizens.

 

[The Greater Fool]

You say that as though the idea that you should represent citizens first is silly.

They represent everyone that lives in their district, everyday, all the time, first, last, and in between.

No one is first, last, or otherwise. At least that's the goal.

 

[ponderingturtle]

They represent everyone that lives in their district, everyday, all the time, first, last, and in between.

No one is first, last, or otherwise. At least that's the goal.

Though of course the slaves only get 3/5 of the representation in congress.

 

[The Greater Fool]

Though of course the slaves only get 3/5 of the representation in congress.

But it's the first 3/5s.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

BTW, I saw something the other day about how the census is mentioned in Article 1 of the constitution, as a responsibility of congress, and not in Article 2, which describes the president.

In other words, what question is on the census should be up to congress, not the president.

It's another executive order the GOP gave Trump a pass for.

 

[Stacyhs]

No, it is absolutely NOT anonymous. That's why I can look at publicly released census data and see who my ancestors were and where they came from.

And, hilariously, he said that the day after Justice Department attorneys defending the question stated in court that that was absolutely not the reason.

Census data is not released to the public for 72 years. The last census publicly released was the 1940 census in 2012. The 1950 census will not be released until 2022. So the 2020 census data will not be released until 2092.

 

[pgwenthold]

Census data is not released to the public for 72 years. The last census publicly released was the 1940 census in 2012. The 1950 census will not be released until 2022. So the 2020 census data will not be released until 2092.

Not released to the PUBLIC but absolutely available to the government right away, and not anonymous.

 

[Ladewig]

Hey, how are we doing on the cyber. President Trump identified the cyber as being very important back in October 2016.

As far as the cyber, I agree to parts of what Secretary Clinton said. We should be better than anybody else, and perhaps we’re not. I don’t think anybody knows that it was Russia that broke into the DNC. She’s saying Russia, Russia, Russia—I don't, maybe it was. I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China. It could also be lots of other people. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay?​

 

[Stacyhs]

Not released to the PUBLIC but absolutely available to the government right away, and not anonymous.

Absolutely....which is why I stated censuses are not "released to the public" for 72 years and when the next 2 censuses will be "publicly" released. It can be very frustrating to genealogy researchers.