Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

[NWO Sentryman]

Apparently it's doesn't matter if Trump personally chokes the kids, as long as NWOSentryman can find someone else that's ever done something bad somwhere in the world. Then it's all good. It's weaponized Whataboutism.

As Kenan Malik points out, "Civilised" Europe has no right to complain about this, and it's arguably WORSE than even Trump.

 

[Darat]

As Kenan Malik points out, "Civilised" Europe has no right to complain about this, and it's arguably WORSE than even Trump.

If the criticisms are valid it makes no difference who makes those criticisms. You are merely using an adhom argument, which as I am sure you know is a logical fallacy.

Are the conditions bad or are they now?

 

[jeremyp]

As Kenan Malik points out, "Civilised" Europe has no right to complain about this, and it's arguably WORSE than even Trump.

Europe isn't complaining as far as I know. I live in Europe and I am critical of Trump's policy on locking children in cages. I have every right to be critical.

I'm also critical of a lot of the things being done to immigrants into the EU and many other Europeans share my opinion, but that is irrelevant on a thread about the USA locking children up in cages in the USA politics section.

Why are you still trying to excuse Trump's actions?

 

[carlitos]

Apparently it's doesn't matter if Trump personally chokes the kids, as long as NWOSentryman can find someone else that's ever done something bad somwhere in the world. Then it's all good. It's weaponized Whataboutism.

As Kenan Malik points out, "Civilised" Europe has no right to complain about this, and it's arguably WORSE than even Trump.

As others have noted, you are having a very, very, very hard time focusing on this topic for some reason.

Here, at the top of the page:

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics​

Does that help? Is "Civilised Europe" in the USA?"

 

[angrysoba]

It doesn't need to be stated that it's odious,

Apparently, it does. Why? Because there are some people on this forum who want to change the subject.

but it's more the hypocritical sneering of "This shows how evil Drumpf and AmeriKKKa are!" that drives me up the wall.

It is not all about you, and what drives you up the wall, you know. Maybe the camps themselves are more important than your feelings. Ever thought of that?

 

[theprestige]

Keeping children separated from their parents in inhumane conditions is monstrous.

One of the problems they're trying to solve is that a lot of these children weren't with their parents to begin with.

 

[Amazer]

One of the problems they're trying to solve is that a lot of these children weren't with their parents to begin with.

Still not an excuse for keeping those kids in inhumane conditions.

Sent from my SM-M305F using Tapatalk

 

[plague311]

One of the problems they're trying to solve is that a lot of these children weren't with their parents to begin with.

Do you have anything to support this statement? It's been asked to be supported multiple times but no one ever seems to be able to do it. How many of these children "weren't with their parents to begin with"? Do we have actual statistics?

Also, as previously implied by Amazer, even if they weren't with their parents that still doesn't rationalize them being treated like **** and that's a total non sequitur.

"These kids might be being kidnapped."

"Oh, ok. Lock them in that cage for their own safety, that should clear it up."

"You're a genius."

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Simple question:

do you believe that it is the job of the US government to fix the humanitarian crisis /abuse in these camps?
Or do you intend to wait out the problem until no more migrants come to the US?

 

[carlitos]

Do you have anything to support this statement? It's been asked to be supported multiple times but no one ever seems to be able to do it. How many of these children "weren't with their parents to begin with"? Do we have actual statistics?

Customs and Border Patrol data on unaccompanied minors at the border.

According to the data, it looks like unaccompanied minors 17 and under represent about 10% of total Southwest land border apprehensions. And the big growth in apprehensions is from family units, followed by unaccompanied minors.

Unlike the single adults, which are still predominately from Mexico, the families and unaccompanied children are 80 - 90% from Central America.

Type | FY18TD MAY | FY19TD MAY | % Change
Unaccompanied Minors|32,292 |56,278 |74%
People as part of Family|59,106 |332,981 |463%
Single Adults|160,783 |204,248 |27%

 

[plague311]

Customs and Border Patrol data on unaccompanied minors at the border.

According to the data, it looks like unaccompanied minors 17 and under represent about 10% of total Southwest land border apprehensions. And the big growth in apprehensions is from family units, followed by unaccompanied minors.

Unlike the single adults, which are still predominately from Mexico, the families and unaccompanied children are 80 - 90% from Central America.

Type | FY18TD MAY | FY19TD MAY | % Change
Unaccompanied Minors|32,292 |56,278 |74%
People as part of Family|59,106 |332,981 |463%
Single Adults|160,783 |204,248 |27%

Thank you for that data.

Even that, as you mentioned, shows people that are in family units. That doesn't relate to "they are being kidnapped and sold in sex trafficking". Unless I'm terribly missing something.

Am I terribly missing something?

 

[carlitos]

Am I terribly missing something?

I can't tell from what you wrote, whether you see that "unaccompanied minors" are exactly that - unaccompanied - and separate from the family unit numbers. The table I made shows three discrete populations - UACs, family unit persons, and single adults. The family unit numbers include total persons apprehended, including both the adults and children. They do not include any unaccompanied minors.

ETA -

Sending people who have been kidnapped for sex trafficking alone across the border seems like a bad way to run a sex trafficking ring, so presumably those kidnap victims are listed in the family numbers. No idea what documents they use to verify the families. Fun fact - my paternal grandmother came to the US under a fake name, traveling with another family to Ellis Island.

 

[plague311]

I can't tell from what you wrote, whether you see that "unaccompanied minors" are exactly that - unaccompanied - and separate from the family unit numbers. The table I made shows three discrete populations - UACs, family unit persons, and single adults. The family unit numbers include total persons apprehended, including both the adults and children. They do not include any unaccompanied minors.

Ok, I'll try to explain myself further. Doing the math on those shows that UAC make up 12% and 9%, respectively, of the total people coming.

I'll phrase this part differently as well, I see how many UACs there are, but does "UAC" mean "brought here by a sex trafficker"? Does that mean they hopped on the caravan with friends of the family? The claim here is that "many" of the kids are brought over by sex traffickers. While your data shows that there are some kids coming over unaccompanied, I don't see anything showing they are being trafficked or kidnapped. Which was more what I was looking for.

The overall point I was making in my last post is that the largest increase, as you said, is with the family units. So really, this griping of "think about the children, obviously the best move is to rip them away and put them in cages" argument isn't just nonsensical. It's unsupported by any real world data.

 

[carlitos]

Letting your child sex slave cross the border alone and talk to customs and immigration agents without you being there seems like a really bad way to run a smuggling operation.

But yeah - there are actually many more kids coming as part of family units. Ripping those kids apart from their families to detain them separately is cruel and inhumane, and the fact that our government was intentionally doing this to deter migrants is pretty sick.

 

[The Greater Fool]

Ok, I'll try to explain myself further. Doing the math on those shows that UAC make up 12% and 9%, respectively, of the total people coming.

I'll phrase this part differently as well, I see how many UACs there are, but does "UAC" mean "brought here by a sex trafficker"? Does that mean they hopped on the caravan with friends of the family? The claim here is that "many" of the kids are brought over by sex traffickers. While your data shows that there are some kids coming over unaccompanied, I don't see anything showing they are being trafficked or kidnapped. Which was more what I was looking for.

The overall point I was making in my last post is that the largest increase, as you said, is with the family units. So really, this griping of "think about the children, obviously the best move is to rip them away and put them in cages" argument isn't just nonsensical. It's unsupported by any real world data.

As I understand it, a kid is also 'unaccompanied' if they show up with a non-parental relative, such as aunt/uncle, grand parents, older siblings, etc.

 

[plague311]

Letting your child sex slave cross the border alone and talk to customs and immigration agents without you being there seems like a really bad way to run a smuggling operation.

I guess I didn't think of that as what they were doing, but nothing else in that data that I could find (I'll totally admit to be wrong if that's the case) supports the claim that "many" are sex slaves at all.

But yeah - there are actually many more kids coming as part of family units. Ripping those kids apart from their families to detain them separately is cruel and inhumane, and the fact that our government was intentionally doing this to deter migrants is pretty sick.

I agree with this in its entirety.

As I understand it, a kid is also 'unaccompanied' if they show up with a non-parental relative, such as aunt/uncle, grand parents, older siblings, etc.

I assumed those would be included in the "family units" section. Though that could just mean parents + kid, etc.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Ice deports 41 year old man who has been in the US since he was 6 months old. He was deported to Iraq, a country he had never set foot in, as he was born into a refugee camp in Greece. He did not speak Arabic and was type 1 diabetic.

Totally unfamiliar with the country and language, he was made homeless and destitute overnight and died for lack of medicine for his diabetes.

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1159240161172938753

 

[Trebuchet]

Murderers.

 

[Belz...]

Ice deports 41 year old man who has been in the US since he was 6 months old. He was deported to Iraq, a country he had never set foot in, as he was born into a refugee camp in Greece. He did not speak Arabic and was type 1 diabetic.

Totally unfamiliar with the country and language, he was made homeless and destitute overnight and died for lack of medicine for his diabetes.

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1159240161172938753

Monsters.

 

[carlitos]

Ice deports 41 year old man who has been in the US since he was 6 months old. He was deported to Iraq, a country he had never set foot in, as he was born into a refugee camp in Greece. He did not speak Arabic and was type 1 diabetic.

Totally unfamiliar with the country and language, he was made homeless and destitute overnight and died for lack of medicine for his diabetes.

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1159240161172938753

Thank you for posting that. I'm still pretty upset after reading it, and will refrain from commenting further.