The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

[AnimalFriendly]

I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.

Then go find the 10-year-old Slenderman groupies as you'd fit in there even better. And they might actually want you.

 

[Stacyhs]

The police did everything by the book.

If you prefer to believe a convicted liar, that is your prerogative.

There's a book that says you shouldn't test a semen stain when you find a women stabbed to death in her bedroom?

I don't know of any 'book' that instructs the police to:

1. Use dirty gloves to collect samples
2. Pass evidence around before bagging
3. Put evidence in a random box previously used to store other items
4. Collect an identified piece of evidence 46 days later
5. Not change shoe covers between rooms
6. Declare "case closed" before any forensic evidence has been returned
7. Declare a burglary staged based on assumptions rather than evidence
8. Leak false information to the media
9. Not provide a suspect with a lawyer as required by law
10. Not provide a suspect with a neutral interpreter as required by law

 

[Bill Williams]

I don't know of any 'book' that instructs the police to:

1. Use dirty gloves to collect samples
2. Pass evidence around before bagging
3. Put evidence in a random box previously used to store other items
4. Collect an identified piece of evidence 46 days later
5. Not change shoe covers between rooms
6. Declare "case closed" before any forensic evidence has been returned
7. Declare a burglary staged based on assumptions rather than evidence
8. Leak false information to the media
9. Not provide a suspect with a lawyer as required by law
10. Not provide a suspect with a neutral interpreter as required by law

But aside from all this, Vixen is quite correct.

 

[Numbers]

I may have mentioned this in a previous post.

Initially, I had accepted that Giobbi meant what he said about the reasons he suspected Amanda and Raffaele.

A long time after I first read of Giobbi's comments, I used Google Translate to get an English translation of his testimony before the Massei court. Not only does Giobbi mention perceiving Amanda's (alleged) hip wiggle as a clue suggesting her culpability in Meredith's murder/rape; he also, in response to a cross-examination question, states that the bloodstains found in the downstairs flat was left by a cat with a bloody ear. He does not claim to have seen the cat. But what alerted me to considering all his statements about how he came to his suspicions about Amanda and Raffaele as bogus was his response to a question about how there came to be a bloodstain by the light switch - much too high on a wall for a cat to brush against. He said that the cat jumped.

Now, I am not an expert in cat behavior, but I have shared apartments with cats and I am confident that an injured, bleeding cat would not jump about 4 feet in the air in order to bump its bleeding ear against a wall. A cat with a bleeding ear would probably seek shelter and no cat jumps to a place it can't land.

So I then saw Giobbi's absurd statements, including the ones were he inferred that the break-in had been staged, as cover for decisions he and Mignini made to snare the "softest targets", the "most convenient suspects", in order to close the case as quickly as possible.

Viewed that way, the events of the interrogations of Knox and Sollecito become the acts of rational, if unethical or dishonest, police, rather than a whole gaggle of fools.

And I suggest this behavior, and the absurd cover stories, may be typical of those Italian authorities who engage in unethical or dishonest practices. Perhaps that is because the Italian government and Superior Council of the Judiciary can forgive fools but must (appear to) discipline dishonesty.

On cover-ups, especially absurd coverups:

Many may remember the Watergate incident that occurred during US President Nixon's administration. A group broke into the offices, located in the Watergate building in Washington, DC, of the Democratic Party. There were allegations of connections between that group and the Nixon administration, including the president. It turned out that President Nixon had a voice-activated recorder that recorded conversations, which Congress obtained through court order, between him and his staff which suggested that at a minimum he was involved in a cover-up of the break-in.

One of the incidents relating to this recording was that there was an 18.5 minute gap of the recording of a possibly critical conversation between Nixon and a staff official. The question arose as to what had caused the gap. Here is an excerpt from a news article about an absurd explanation of the cause of the gap that was offered by Nixon's secretary:

".... On November 17, 1973, the White House informed Federal District Judge John Sirica that the 18 1/2 minute Nixon-Haldeman conversation of June 20, 1972, had been erased. White House Counsel Fred Buzhardt told the Court that he no explanation for the erasure.

Nixon’s Secretary Rose Mary Woods took the blame for the first five minutes of the erasure. She said that she had been transcribing the tape, and when she reached to take a phone call, her foot hit a pedal on the recording machine, inadvertently causing the tape player to “record” over the original tape’s contents. Reporters were called to the White House to watch her perform a re-enactment, and the photos of her performing a tremendous stretch, which she supposedly held for five minutes, were rejected as implausible. Moreover, the particular tape recording machine does not operate the way she had claimed; simply pressing the foot pedal to “record” would not initiate a recording unless the play button was being manually depressed at the very same time.
Chief of Staff Alexander Haig blamed the 18 1/2 minute gap on a “sinister force.” In January 1974, experts who examined the tape reported that were four or five separate erasures."

Here is the relevance to the Knox - Sollecito case:

1. It should not be assumed that officials, including police officers, prosecutors, or judges, are telling the truth regarding their actions which on inspection are unethical or unlawful.

2. When explanations of actions by those officials are absurd or contrary to empirical reality, one should be especially skeptical.

3. Therefore, one should be skeptical of the absurd rationales offered by VQA Giobbi and PM Mignini for their actions, in particular their claims that Amanda's or Raffaele's behavior triggered their suspicions.

4. One should also be skeptical of the police rationales, not developed through empirical evidence, that the break-in was staged or that Meredith Kercher was attacked by more than one person.

Source for the news quote about Watergate:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ncriminating-evidence/?utm_term=.164bab21cfb2

 

[Stacyhs]

Meanwhile...over on TJMK with LooneyTunes Slick Pete:

Fuss in the Sun and Daily Mail in the UK over Guede being out now on work release.

But he’s been out before, he’s the only one to show any sorrow to the Kerchers, he’s the only one that did not stalk them, he’s the only one setting himself up for a worthwhile career, he’s the only one with no lust for blood-money. And no Italians think that he or Sollecito wielded the knife that killed Meredith.

Comments posted are not all in tune with the tut-tutting of the Sun and Mail reports. Neither mentioned the bent Fifth Chambers still placed Knox at the scene of the crime, or a few hundred other things.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 07/01/19 at 10:09 AM | #

Is this idiot for real? Guede is the only one to show sorrow for the Kerchers? When did he, the convicted killer, ever say "Sorry for stabbing your daughter to death and sexually assaulting her!" And he's the only one who didn't 'stalk' them? LOL! Does he think Knox or Sollecito was driving by the Kercher's house counting their bushes a la Peggy Ganong? Exactly when does he think Guede even could have "stalked" the Kerchers? During one of his day releases on a quick flight Ryanair to England?

NO Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife? What is it with the PGP on TJMK who think they know what everyone thinks, including all Italians? What a moron. Why is it that every judge or expert that doesn't agree with their guilt conviction is "bent"? That man..and his teeny tiny remaining whacko fans... need help. Seriously.

 

[Bill Williams]

NO Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife? What is it with the PGP on TJMK who think they know what everyone thinks, including all Italians? What a moron. Why is it that every judge or expert that doesn't agree with their guilt conviction is "bent"? That man..and his teeny tiny remaining whacko fans... need help. Seriously.

The gaslighting goes like this:

1) No Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife
2) Those Italians who think Knox had nothing to do with it are Masons, liars, and sell outs to American media interests.​

#2 is proof that #1 is false, even if half of Italy are Masons,liars, and sell outs.

Perhaps the most concise analysis of the Marasca-Bruno report comes from a living and breathing Italian.

https://www.groundreport.com/knox-and-sollecito-final-words/

But prepare for this Italian to be attacked mercilessly, despite the fact that no Italian believes as this Italian does. Even he doesn't believe what he wrote, because he's Italian, and no Italian believes as this Italian does.

It's so confusing!

 

[Vixen]

Then go find the 10-year-old Slenderman groupies as you'd fit in there even better. And they might actually want you.

Aw, that's not very nice.

 

[Vixen]

I don't know of any 'book' that instructs the police to:

1. Use dirty gloves to collect samples
2. Pass evidence around before bagging
3. Put evidence in a random box previously used to store other items
4. Collect an identified piece of evidence 46 days later
5. Not change shoe covers between rooms
6. Declare "case closed" before any forensic evidence has been returned
7. Declare a burglary staged based on assumptions rather than evidence
8. Leak false information to the media
9. Not provide a suspect with a lawyer as required by law
10. Not provide a suspect with a neutral interpreter as required by law

You've made all of that up.

 

[Vixen]

But aside from all this, Vixen is quite correct.

Thank you.

 

[Vixen]

Meanwhile...over on TJMK with LooneyTunes Slick Pete:



Is this idiot for real? Guede is the only one to show sorrow for the Kerchers? When did he, the convicted killer, ever say "Sorry for stabbing your daughter to death and sexually assaulting her!" And he's the only one who didn't 'stalk' them? LOL! Does he think Knox or Sollecito was driving by the Kercher's house counting their bushes a la Peggy Ganong? Exactly when does he think Guede even could have "stalked" the Kerchers? During one of his day releases on a quick flight Ryanair to England?

NO Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife? What is it with the PGP on TJMK who think they know what everyone thinks, including all Italians? What a moron. Why is it that every judge or expert that doesn't agree with their guilt conviction is "bent"? That man..and his teeny tiny remaining whacko fans... need help. Seriously.

Calm down.

 

[sept79]

Meanwhile...over on TJMK with LooneyTunes Slick Pete:



Is this idiot for real? Guede is the only one to show sorrow for the Kerchers? When did he, the convicted killer, ever say "Sorry for stabbing your daughter to death and sexually assaulting her!" And he's the only one who didn't 'stalk' them? LOL! Does he think Knox or Sollecito was driving by the Kercher's house counting their bushes a la Peggy Ganong? Exactly when does he think Guede even could have "stalked" the Kerchers? During one of his day releases on a quick flight Ryanair to England?

NO Italian thinks anyone but Knox wielded the knife? What is it with the PGP on TJMK who think they know what everyone thinks, including all Italians? What a moron. Why is it that every judge or expert that doesn't agree with their guilt conviction is "bent"? That man..and his teeny tiny remaining whacko fans... need help. Seriously.

A name from out of the past. Does anyone know how class act Peggy ('thanks for dropping by') Ganong is doing? Doesn't she live only a few miles from the Knox family.

 

[acbytesla]

A name from out of the past. Does anyone know how class act Peggy ('thanks for dropping by') Ganong is doing? Doesn't she live only a few miles from the Knox family.

Supposedly Peggy also lives in West Seattle where Amanda's family lives. So yes to your last question. I also lived in West Seattle for a few years. But I can't say I know much about her other than she was a character.

 

[acbytesla]

You've made all of that up.

No, she didn't.

Give it up Vixen. Amanda and Raffaele are innocent. Find some other batcrap crazy thing to get involved in. I hear there is this religion where they believe in the walking dead. Why not try that?

 

[Stacyhs]

I don't know of any 'book' that instructs the police to:

1. Use dirty gloves to collect samples
2. Pass evidence around before bagging
3. Put evidence in a random box previously used to store other items
4. Collect an identified piece of evidence 46 days later
5. Not change shoe covers between rooms
6. Declare "case closed" before any forensic evidence has been returned
7. Declare a burglary staged based on assumptions rather than evidence
8. Leak false information to the media
9. Not provide a suspect with a lawyer as required by law
10. Not provide a suspect with a neutral interpreter as required by law

You've made all of that up.

#1,2, & 4:

The judges said that one of Ms Kercher's bra clasps, which prosecutors argued carried a trace of Mr Sollecito's DNA, was left on the floor of the murder scene for 46 days, and then "was passed from hand to hand of the workers, who, furthermore, were wearing dirty latex gloves".

#3:

"The kitchen knife, found in Sollecito's house and the supposed crime weapon, was kept in an ordinary cardboard box,''

No forensics expert, Gubbiotti first stored the knife in a calendar box, then repacked it and stuck it in a closet, and finally sent it to the crime lab in Rome.

Burleigh, Nina. The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (p. 202).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34177293

#5:

Screening extracts from videos made by Stefanoni’s forensic team while it was gathering samples at the cottage,…
Conti’s list went on and on. One person dressed in jeans and a sweater entered Meredith’s room and touched the body; another touched the edges of one of her throat wounds; Stefanoni’s gloves were smudged with blood and split over her left index when she picked up a sample; the officer filming the police video walked in and out of Meredith’s room without changing his shoe covers;

Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case . St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition.

#6:
Perugia's police chief, Arturo De Felice, declared "caso chiuso" on the same day Amanda was arrested: Nov. 6, 2007.
The forensic results were first reported to Mignini on Nov. 15, 2007 more than a week after "caso chiuso" was declared.
(see location 2404, Kindle version A Death in Italy by John Follain)

#7:

He looked into Filomena’s room and like Napoleoni before him, he noticed the shards of glass on top of the piles of clothes and the large stone on the floor; it was obvious to him too that it could never have come through the window without shattering the shutters. He thought immediately that the window must have been broken by someone standing inside the room. ‘There’s a traitor in this house, someone who participated in the crime or helped to cover it up or who did both,’ Mignini thought to himself. Perhaps the killer had entered through the front door, and staged a fake burglary to throw suspicion on an outsider, assisted by someone living in the cottage – in either of the two flats – who at the very least, acted as an accomplice to the murder.

Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case

Filomena testified that she saw glass both on top and below objects. No glass shatter analysis was ever done to determine the direction of breakage.

Outside the cottage, Mignini looked at Filomena’s window, puzzling over it with Chiacchiera and Napoleoni. He agreed with them that it was an unlikely point of entry for a burglar to choose. The window was too high up for anyone to scale the wall

Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case . St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition.

Except is wasn't as shown in the British video.

#8 Among the false stories leaked to the media:

Investigators say Mr Guede left Perugia on the morning after the murder and went to Milan, where he was stopped by police but not detained. Detectives locked on to his mobile phone signal in Milan as recently as this weekend, but it then went dead. Amanda Knox made at least two calls to his number, one of them at 11am on 2 November, around the time police discovered Kercher’s body.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-fourth-suspect-in-kercher-murder-758731.html

Investigator Giuliano Mignini claimed a bloody fingerprint belonging to Amanda Knox had been found on a bathroom tap.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7116184.stm

According to a report by the Times of London, University of Washington student Amanda Knox told investigators that on the night of Meredith Kercher’s murder, she was at her Italian boyfriend’s flat where they read several pages of a Harry Potter novel “in the German edition.”

However, investigators said the novel was not found at Raffaele Sollecito’s flat but instead at the cottage Knox shared with Kercher.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/12643316.html

#9,#10:

See the ECHR ruling of Feb. 2109. Or shall I quote them for you?

Unlike you, Vixen, when I make a claim as fact, I can actually cite sources as evidence.

 

[Stacyhs]

Calm down.

Stop lying.

 

[Bill Williams]

You've made all of that up.

Ah, er, no.

 

[Stacyhs]

Ah, er, no.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_5397154cd64bdf2e8d.jpg[/qimg]

It gets worse if you believe St. John of Follain:

Stefanoni’s gloves were smudged with blood and split over her left index when she picked up a sample

 

[Myriad]

I feel as though I have landed in the middle of a group of eleven-year old Justin Bieber groupies.

Wrong pop artist. "Bye Bye Bye" (as in, what the Italian Supreme Court said to to Knox's and Sollecito's murder convictions and what the ECHR said to Knox's calunnia conviction) was by NSYNC.

 

[Numbers]

#1,2, & 4:


#3:


Burleigh, Nina. The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (p. 202).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34177293

#5:

Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case . St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition.

#6:
Perugia's police chief, Arturo De Felice, declared "caso chiuso" on the same day Amanda was arrested: Nov. 6, 2007.
The forensic results were first reported to Mignini on Nov. 15, 2007 more than a week after "caso chiuso" was declared.
(see location 2404, Kindle version A Death in Italy by John Follain)

#7:

Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case

Filomena testified that she saw glass both on top and below objects. No glass shatter analysis was ever done to determine the direction of breakage.


Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case . St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition.

Except is wasn't as shown in the British video.

#8 Among the false stories leaked to the media:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-fourth-suspect-in-kercher-murder-758731.html


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7116184.stm


http://www.komonews.com/news/local/12643316.html

#9,#10:

See the ECHR ruling of Feb. 2109. Or shall I quote them for you?

Unlike you, Vixen, when I make a claim as fact, I can actually cite sources as evidence.

Actually the ECHR judgment Knox v. Italy was published 24 January 2019, and became final 24 June 2019. It would have become final on 24 April 2019, but Italy requested a referral to the Grand Chamber, which was rejected by the Grand Chamber Panel. Here's the text of the title page of the judgment:

AFFAIRE KNOX c. ITALIE

(Requête no 76577/13)

ARRÊT

STRASBOURG

24 janvier 2019

DÉFINITIF

24/06/2019

 

[AnimalFriendly]

Aw, that's not very nice.

I know.