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Cont: Trans Women are not Women II: The Bath Of Khan

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theprestige said:
This thread is about the intersection of physical attributes, self-perception of gender, and gender roles in society.

You seem to be trying to pick out the thread of gender roles in society, but the problem is that you can't really do this without unraveling the whole tapestry.
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My view is that gender roles in society can cause a conflict with the self perception of gender.
Societal pressure to conform to the boy/girl gender roles, can cause problems with the people who just dont feel as if they are a part of that.
Gender, hard to define or something.

The moment you start to change your body to conform though, I dont think thats a gender issue anymore.
 
theprestige said:
This thread is about the intersection of physical attributes, self-perception of gender, and gender roles in society.
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So a trans-woman is just a cis-male who wants to stay home with the kids? Whodathunk!
 
theprestige said:
Nope.

Everything else is just figuring out what that means and whether it's actually true.
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I know what the thread's about because I started it, and the only purpose of the thread was to state that trans women are not women.

That's unchallengeable - they don't have a uterus or ovaries and they are not, and will never be, women.

That's it. The thread's drifted into all sorts of bollocks, which is fairly demonstrable by the fact that the same arguments have been going on for 50-something pages with no sign of consensus.
 
d4m10n said:
Much like how Jesus would be totally unsurprised at how Christianity turned out. :rolleyes:
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I didn't claim to be surprised what happened happened, but the fact is the thread is simply about trans women not being women. I'm not even bothered about the drift into irrelevancy - it displays perfectly why there will never be an answer to the "problem" of where trans people sit* in society. We have two sides implacably opposed to the other's position. Instead of trying to reach a happy compromise, both sides have become more and more entrenched.

It's a beautiful mirror for politics.

And for the record, yes, I think Jesus would be shocked at what's done and said in his name. That's why he let himself be nailed to a tree, according to the script I read.

He just wasn't a very good psychic and didn't see what Saul of Tarsus was going to do.

*Yes, I did use it deliberately.
 
And another very good reason why trans women can't be women - they do not menstruate.

https://theconversation.com/period-...ool-uni-and-work-lets-be-open-about-it-118824

Trans women will never need to try to figure out which product to use, will never pay the sales tax on them, will never enrich the corporations behind menstrual products, and will never be able to claim they need time to deal with period pain or have to rush to the shops to buy new panties when an accidental overflow occurs.
 
d4m10n said:
Neither does my mother-in-law.
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What an idiotic reply - she obviously used to. The fact that she's post-menopausal doesn't mean her input is either invalid or useless.

Exactly unlike a trans woman's opinion.
 
The Atheist said:
What an idiotic reply - she obviously used to. The fact that she's post-menopausal doesn't mean her input is either invalid or useless.
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I have no idea why you'd assume someone's input is invalid or useless just b/c they've never personally suffered from the subject under discussion. Do we tell pacifists to shut up unless they happen to be combat veterans?
 
The Atheist said:
And another very good reason why trans women can't be women - they do not menstruate.

https://theconversation.com/period-...ool-uni-and-work-lets-be-open-about-it-118824

Trans women will never need to try to figure out which product to use, will never pay the sales tax on them, will never enrich the corporations behind menstrual products, and will never be able to claim they need time to deal with period pain or have to rush to the shops to buy new panties when an accidental overflow occurs.
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Transwomen aren't women, Transmen arent men, thats arguing about sex.

I feel gender is the complicated topic, not sex.
 
d4m10n said:
I have no idea why you'd assume someone's input is invalid or useless just b/c they've never personally suffered from the subject under discussion. Do we tell pacifists to shut up unless they happen to be combat veterans?
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Terrible analogy. Can a non-combatant speak to the personal effect of war injuries? No.

If you haven't been under fire, you have no idea what it's like, so therefore your input would be completely invalid.

BrooklynBaby said:
The silence of the "feminists" while men are winning women's sporting events is hilarious.
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Have you been asleep for a few years, mate? There are numerous examples in the thread and elsewhere of feminists not being at all silent on the subject, then being labelled TERFS for not playing along with the trans agenda.

p0lka said:
Transwomen aren't women, Transmen arent men, thats arguing about sex.

I feel gender is the complicated topic, not sex.
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And I feel the attempt to make the two different is absurd. The myth is that biology is interchangeable.

A Dutch bloke recently went to court to change his age from 60 to 40, because he identifies as a 40-year-old.

The court rightly threw it out.

It's an identical situation. Or, you could go ask Rachel Dolezal how things worked out for her.

The more this whole sorry saga goes on, the more it looks like a squeaky wheel syndrome that could, and should, be safely ignored.

I think I'm going to take my emotional support flamethrower and insist that I be referred to as a teapot from now on. I'm full of tea, virtually never put any liquid not tea into me, and I can make a jolly fine teapot shape with my arms. I'm pretty sure I have a tea strainer that won't look too much like a yarmulke if I wear it on my head - I don't identify as Jewish, even with more of it that Liz Warren has Native American.

I will be Mr Teapot - my gender/sex/cisness is not an issue.
 
The Atheist said:
If you haven't been under fire, you have no idea what it's like, so therefore your input would be completely invalid.
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If what you're trying to say is that there were no transwomen in the cross-sectional survey of 32,748 women discussed in the article you linked, well, yeah. Obviously. If you're trying to say that transwomen are different from ciswomen in the sense that one group is at risk of menstrual cycles and pregnancy, again, you're simply stating the obvious. When transwomen activists demand access to women's spaces so they can properly dispose of feminine hygiene products, we will return to this point.
 
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The Atheist said:
I know what the thread's about because I started it, and the only purpose of the thread was to state that trans women are not women.

That's unchallengeable - they don't have a uterus or ovaries and they are not, and will never be, women.
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Seriously? You started a thread just to say that transwomen don't have vaginas? And now you're back to yell at us for not leaving it at that?
 
theprestige said:
Seriously? You started a thread just to say that transwomen don't have vaginas? And now you're back to yell at us for not leaving it at that?
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Damn right - and get the **** off my lawn while you're at it.

I'm actually more amused than annoyed.

But do try to explain to me how any trans woman wanting to be classed as an actual woman is in any way different to Rachel Dolezal and her blackness.

I've said an enormous number of times that if anyone wants to progress the issue instead of arguing the toss over bloody toilets, or some mythical idea of how biology and four billion years of evolution works, take a leaf out of the Pasifika handbook and just have a third gender.

Not a perfect answer for everyone? Write a sternly-worded letter to your local newspaper. Or even better, Tweet endlessly about it.
 
Basically this thread is "When I use the word 'woman' I mean by it X Y and Z" only with a different X.Y and Z for each person.

Sent from my Moto C using Tapatalk
 
Robin said:
Basically this thread is "When I use the word 'woman' I mean by it X Y and Z" only with a different X.Y and Z for each person.
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It's worse than that.

Speaking only for myself, I intend to convey a different meaning (using the exact same word) when I say "women's reproductive health," "women's clothes," and "women's sports."
 
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