The Trump Presidency 14

[Cabbage]

But yeah, I'm sure you won't be satisfied by that. You claim I'm wrong, so you prove Obama (or some other president) has more (or just as many). I've done my part.

 

[Stacyhs]

I'm not often left speechless but you managed it. I tried to put into words just what is so wrong with all the above but finally gave up.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_716695d11be0680add.jpg[/qimg]

You know I'm wrong, but you can't explain why or how? That must really suck. I hope it gets better.

At least you won this argument, so that's some good news.

It's like trying to explain to Trump why he's wrong to say "she isn't my type" as a defense to rape allegations or that the country is taking in billions of dollars from China with his tariffs. He's not going to get it so why waste the time? And yes, it really does suck but it won't get better.

There wasn't an argument to win or lose. It takes two to argue and I wasn't about to waste my time on such a ridiculous post.

 

[thaiboxerken]

?

Pretty sure I didn't do that, but feel free to cite the post where I call Trump's Korea policy a unique anything.

That would be a pretty embarrassing post for me, since my entire argument is that Trump's Korea policy is not particularly unique.

You posted that 2 years of no war under Trump as a Trump victory. What did you mean?

Is it that you're relieved Trump's chaotic behavior didn't start a war?

 

[TofuFighter]

From: https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/24/media/ravelry-trump-ban-scli-intl/index.html
Ravelry, a community site that allows users to share ideas about knitting and textile projects, said in a blog post Sunday that it will remove users if they express support for Trump on its forum, profile pages or any other content.

ETA: They included a statement that they are not taking a pro-democrat or anti-republican stance, but that it is specifically Trump (and his support of neo-nazis and other bigoted groups) that it is the issue.

You wouldn't think a site dedicated to such a non-political hobby to have a problem with Trumpers. (Anyone have access to the site? Do they have any sort of general discussion threads where politics were openly discussed? Or did things just sort of 'creep in'?)

Following that link to the [url="https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/new-ban-do-not-post-in-support-of-trump-or-his-administration.835849/']RPG.net forum[/url], where Ravelry apparently sourced their policy from (and the ensuing "how did we get here?" string of support messages), makes me wonder whether this kind of sentiment and policy stance will spread to other forums.

 

[uke2se]

Following that link to the [url="https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/new-ban-do-not-post-in-support-of-trump-or-his-administration.835849/']RPG.net forum[/url], where Ravelry apparently sourced their policy from (and the ensuing "how did we get here?" string of support messages), makes me wonder whether this kind of sentiment and policy stance will spread to other forums.

One can hope. De-platforming works. It limits the spread of hateful stupidity. It also has the added benefit of making the Trumpistas know that they aren't welcome in polite society until they change their act.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

One can hope. De-platforming works. It limits the spread of hateful stupidity. It also has the added benefit of making the Trumpistas know that they aren't welcome in polite society until they change their act.

And yet the UK had "NOBODY LIKES A TORY!" blared all the way from 2010 to Election Day, 2015. Tories were roundly reviled, but they still managed to get reelected despite the Bedroom Tax and the GO HOME Vans. Or look at how the Far Right is ascendant in various European countries that have Hate Speech laws.

Here's the thing: People will pay lip service to "immigrants bring Yummy Yummy Ethnic Food!", until they reach the ballot box, when they really make their opinions known.

 

[Norman Alexander]

And yet the UK had "NOBODY LIKES A TORY!" blared all the way from 2010 to Election Day, 2015. Tories were roundly reviled, but they still managed to get reelected. Or look at how the Far Right is ascendant in various European countries that have Hate Speech laws.

Here's the thing: People will pay lip service to "immigrants bring Yummy Yummy Ethnic Food!", until they reach the ballot box, when they really make their opinions known.

Vote For Humus !!

 

[wareyin]

I'm not going to judge him more poorly than Obama, for doing the same kind of stuff Obama did.

By "same kind of stuff" you mean "orders of magnitude less"? Otherwise what you are claiming you're doing is not at all what you are actually doing.

Of course, since you are claiming that Trump does as many bad things as Obama did, I'm sure you can back this up. Let's see your detailed lists, so we can check your methodology, ok?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Retweeted

Corey R. Lewandowski
@CLewandowski_
#BREAKING: Melania Trump's senior aide to replace Sarah Sanders–Stephanie Grisham will be press secretary AND communications director. Great choice by ⁦@realDonaldTrump! She has been on the #TrumpTrain since Day 1. Big Congrats!! (link: http://www.politico.com) politico.com

Eric Bolling
@ericbolling
Great choice @realDonaldTrump choosing @StephGrisham45 as your @PressSec!!

Rep. Jim Jordan
@Jim_Jordan
Tomorrow’s hearing on the “Hatch Act” is just the latest attempt to silence the Trump administration.
@KellyannePolls is as tough as nails, and it’s shameful that she’s being dragged into the Democrats’ impeachment circus.
Donald J. Trump Retweeted

Mike Pence
@mike_pence
What Americans hear tomorrow night will only confirm that Mexico has done more in the last 10 DAYS to secure the southern border than Democrats in Congress have done in the last 10 YEARS! #LatinosForTrump

Secretary Acosta
@SecretaryAcosta
Headed to Texas today to discuss #apprenticeship expansion, #PledgetoAmericasWorkers, and the #USMCA. Texas has added ⬆620,900 jobs since January 2017 and set a new record low unemployment rate last month

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

Too bad the Dems in Congress won’t do anything at all about Border Security. They want Open Borders, which means crime. But we are getting it done, including building the Wall! More people than ever before are coming because the USA Economy is so good, the best in history.

Democrats want Open Borders, which equals violent crime, drugs and human trafficking. They also want very high taxes, like 90%. Republicans want what’s good for America - the exact opposite!

 

[eeyore1954]

we know he is a con artist because everyone who ever did business with him (or played golf with him) says he is.
Heck, he even brags about how he uses tricks to get investors.

Do you realize this is the kind of statement that President Trump likes to make. A gross exaggeration or lie. Not everyone who ever did business with him says he is a con artist.
Do you know how many people have done business with him ?
Do you know how many people have done well doing business with him?
Do you know how many people have not done well?

 

[uke2se]

Do you realize this is the kind of statement that President Trump likes to make. A gross exaggeration or lie. Not everyone who ever did business with him says he is a con artist.
Do you know how many people have done business with him ?
Do you know how many people have done well doing business with him?
Do you know how many people have not done well?

We know many who didn't do well in their dealings with Trump. Specifically, Trump is quite well known for stiffing smaller entrepreneurs. Then again, you already knew that and you are just throwing up a distracting cloud of FUD.

 

[thaiboxerken]

double post

 

[thaiboxerken]

Do you realize this is the kind of statement that President Trump likes to make. A gross exaggeration or lie. Not everyone who ever did business with him says he is a con artist.
Do you know how many people have done business with him ?
Do you know how many people have done well doing business with him?
Do you know how many people have not done well?

Trump University is definitive proof that DJT is a con-artist. That's just one example, and it's backed by legal rulings.

 

[eeyore1954]

We know many who didn't do well in their dealings with Trump. Specifically, Trump is quite well known for stiffing smaller entrepreneurs. Then again, you already knew that and you are just throwing up a distracting cloud of FUD.

Do you know how many small entrepreneurs have done business successfully with Trump. We do know some have claimed he has stiffed them. Probably some are right probably some of them are not. He has been in thousands of deals probably most involving many contractors etc.
In spite of being well known for stiffing the small guy he has been able to get people to work with him.

Who am I distracting with a cloud of FUD. Whatever that is.

 

[thaiboxerken]

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-university-scam/

Yes, Trump University Was a Massive Scam

You can put your FUD back where it belongs. DJT is a con-artist, and that is a fact.

 

[Aridas]

Both of those nations have a longstanding policy of stirring up trouble all day every day. For decades, US presidents have had to walk a fine line between pressuring them to knock it off, and avoiding costly escalation even in a good cause. I think Obama's nuke deal with Iran swung a little too far towards avoiding escalation. Trump's withdrawal corrects that oversteer. Iran's had a little tanty over it, but it looks like it's not going to escalate any further right now. Trump and his administration have had more than enough excuses to keep escalating, over the past few weeks. They haven't. Your guess about their intentions is contradicted by events.

Let's be clear here, I wasn't talking about intentions. I was talking about actual actions. They certainly are troublemakers, but war wasn't really even seriously in question until Trump and his Administration acted in a distinctly provocative manner. As for the Iran deal, specifically? I was opposed to pulling out of it without good justification. The Trump Administration didn't even remotely present good justification or even make a meaningful effort to do things as a united front with the rest of the parties involved in the Iran deal, then proceeded to make things even worse.

Even Clinton didn't like the TPP.

After the backlash, yes. Either way, Trump's use of tariffs is harming the US... and for what, exactly? What's the actual feasible endgame here?

Ah yes. A personal attack combined with a violent fantasy. Tell me more.

Personal attack? You're the one trying to claim that border enforcement will only happen under Trump, despite the horrendous mess he's made when it comes to that in nigh every aspect. If you want to reduce government waste, right now, the Trump administration's policy there should be a prime target, quite honestly. Kids being stuck in tents en masse really, really shouldn't cost taxpayers the equivalent of a luxury hotel room every night for subpar care, before getting to the rest of the cruel and irresponsible madness.

No argument from me there. I agree we can't trust Republican lawmakers to take serious action about illegal employers. Nor is Trump likely to do so. This is the kind of damage I see Trump doing so far, and the kind of damage I see him likely to continue doing for another six years. If we re-elect Trump, we're going to continue to have serious border problems, due in part to a failure to crack down on illegal employers.

If one of the Democratic candidates for president seems serious about cracking down on illegal employers, I will seriously consider voting for them. Do any of them come to your mind, in this capacity?

Hmm. I don't think that question's really come up, specifically. As a general rule, though, progressives tend to favor going after the employers more than going after the employees. Here's a WaPo article on positions. I don't think that that question is specifically dealt with, but the one about E-Verify is somewhat relevant, at least. Of the current main candidates... Bernie looks like he's made the strongest overall statement there. When it comes to border security, in general, of course, nearly all of the candidates are very much in favor of increased spending on border security, though generally for methods that will fairly certainly be much more effective than a wall for show.

Actually, I think that being obsessed with irrational or minor concerns is the worse scenario. Having real, serious concerns and taking them seriously is actually the reasonable and responsible scenario. But it's called a derangement syndrome for a reason.

A reason like Republican propagandists doing their usual partisan thing, regardless of the consequences or truth.

Your deployment of the rolleyes suggests that you think the decision not to support transgenders in the military is a minor concern. Is this actually something we agree on? Six more years of this policy aren't a major problem?

Yes and no, depending on what, exactly, the concern in question is. The raw number of transgender troops is, of course, quite small, so it's unlikely to affect the raw number or quality of soldiers much. When it comes to other concerns like the utterly moronic/false justification that's being used, that's very much a serious concern, because nothing the government does should be done on such a basis.

How many degrees of global temperature would those policies have reduced over the next twelve years, if left in place?

Much more than policies that pointedly make things worse.

Enh. It's mild hyperbole. Feel free to form your own impressions about the effect of developing nations on global climate change, and how much they'd need to dial back their own industrial activity, in order for US policy to have a noticeable effect. In the next twelve years.

What counts as noticeable? Reaching a desired target or reducing the damage to come? The overall goal very much should be the latter.

Like what. What else can you think of, that wouldn't be tolerable for another six years, if it comes to that?

Oh, this was supposed to be a list to address tolerability? The brazen lies, corruption, sabotage of the government, the utter disrespect for the rule of law and the Constitution, and the distinctly problematic hostile foreign influence and refusal to act to protect our elections from it make for some that you didn't really touch.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Do you know how many small entrepreneurs have done business successfully with Trump. We do know some have claimed he has stiffed them. Probably some are right probably some of them are not. He has been in thousands of deals probably most involving many contractors etc.
In spite of being well known for stiffing the small guy he has been able to get people to work with him.

Who am I distracting with a cloud of FUD. Whatever that is.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-university-scam/

Yes, Trump University Was a Massive Scam You can put your FUD back where it belongs. DJT is a con-artist, and that is a fact.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

You don't stop being a con artist just because you don't rip off everyone.
Trump foundation, Trump University and of course all golf tournaments and charitable events he ran are enough to establish him as a cheat and con man.
Maybe some got lucky dealing with him, but that hardly absolves him.

 

[uke2se]

Do you know how many small entrepreneurs have done business successfully with Trump. We do know some have claimed he has stiffed them. Probably some are right probably some of them are not. He has been in thousands of deals probably most involving many contractors etc.
In spite of being well known for stiffing the small guy he has been able to get people to work with him.

I'm sure lots of people have done business with him. Let's say he only stiffed 50 of them? Does that make it ok?

Who am I distracting with a cloud of FUD. Whatever that is.

Well, you've successfully managed to get the rest of us to having once again the defend the reality of Trump as a grifter and cheat. Keep it up and maybe you'll never have to ask yourself why you would ever consider supporting such a person.