Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

[Craig4]

Because I am pointing out how Eisenhower and LBJ did far worse and yet America didn't become a Nazi-esque hellscape of production line murder.

Your error is calling these death camps has been pointed out to you be several people. To persist in the comparison is at best disingenuous on your part.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm trying to think of a "Jesus Christ we have to have a pedantic argument about this now?" that's worst then "Death camps! No they are concentration camps! No death camps!" and I'm... not getting anywhere.

They are bad and they shouldn't exist.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The Onion: Tips for Staying Civil While Discussing Child Prisons.

Avoid unkind generalizations like equating the jailing of ethnic minorities with some malevolent form of fascism.

Consider that we all have different perspectives stemming from things like age, ethnicity, or level of racism.

Recall that violently rejecting a tyrannical government goes against everything our forefathers believed in.

Find common ground by recognizing that some kids are huge ********.

Make sure any protests are peaceful, silent, and completely out of sight of anyone who could actually affect government policy.

Give your political opponents the benefit of the doubt by letting this play out for 20 years and seeing if it gets any better on its own.

Realize that every pressing social issue is solved through civil discourse if you ignore virtually all of human history.

Remind yourself that you’re just two people having a cocktail at the same D.C. party and that politics is a game to you.

Avoid painting with a broad brush. Not everyone in favor of zero-tolerance immigration wants to see children in cages—it’s more likely that they just don’t care.

 

[Donal]

I'm trying to think of a "Jesus Christ we have to have a pedantic argument about this now?" that's worst then "Death camps! No they are concentration camps! No death camps!" and I'm... not getting anywhere.

Let's be honest, if you are trying to make the argument about calling them "concentration camps", you will also be making excuses if the gas chambers do show up.

They are bad and the shouldn't exist.

I have no idea why this is such a difficult concepts.

 

[plague311]

My family took in refugees when we were younger. I have a Vietnamese sister, as we've come to feel about her. She's an amazing person. Absolutely fearless, intelligent, driven, and trustworthy. Then there were some that were dick whistles. It shockingly reminded me of another place I've spent time. You know, the US. The only difference is even the most terrible of people that we took in were thankful that they weren't in their old country, and would do almost anything to not have to go back. Even the hardest among them would turn soft as jelly if you mentioned that they needed to change to stay here. Some would, some others got sent back.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Let's be honest, if you are trying to make the argument about calling them "concentration camps", you will also be making excuses if the gas chambers do show up.

One of my favorite movies, gutpunch that it is, is Conspiracy, the 2001 HBO/BBC joint production about the Wansee Conference, a secret meeting held just outside Berlin in 1942 where high ranking members of the German government, military, and Nazi Party meet to basically what to do with Germany's Jews.

As Eichmann and Heydrich lay out the plans to... "evacuate" the Jews from Germany, Major Lange of the SS catches on that they are not talking about "making them leave" when they say "evacuate."

Lange: I have the real feeling I "evacuated" 30,000 Jews already, by shooting them, at Riga. Is what I did "evacuation"? When they fell, were they "evacuated"? There are another 20,000, at least, waiting for similar "evacuation". - I just think it is helpful to know what words mean... with all respect.

Eichmann: If I might, I think it's unnecessary to burden the record...

Heydrich: Yes! In my personal opinion, they are evacuated.

Kritzinger: Explain!

Heydrich: I have just done so.

Kritzinger: That is not - no, that is contrary to what the Chancellery has been told. I have directly been assured - I have - that - purge the Jews, yes, but to annihilate them - that we have undertaken to systematically annihilate all the Jews of Europe - that possibility has personally been denied, to me, by the Führer!

Heydrich: And it will continue to be.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Well that's just peachy.

Do you have... a point?

Trump really isn't that much different from other presidents when you drill down to it. Maybe a lot more buffoonish and boisterous, but so far has yet to do anything really horrific on the level of start a devastating war (Though he has come dangerously close).

Meanwhile, I don't see calls to send former Australian Prime Minister John Howard to The Hague for his immigration policies. Nor is Italian Interior Minister Matteo Salvini facing similar demands.

 

[plague311]

Trump really isn't that much different from other presidents when you drill down to it. Maybe a lot more buffoonish and boisterous, but so far has yet to do anything really horrific on the level of start a devastating war (Though he has come dangerously close).

Meanwhile, I don't see calls to send former Australian Prime Minister John Howard to The Hague for his immigration policies. Nor is Italian Interior Minister Matteo Salvini facing similar demands.

Yeah, he's only putting kids in cages, not allowing them to be sanitary, and having them sleep on concrete floors underneath lights.

It sounds even ******** when I read it out loud.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Yeah, he's only putting kids in cages, not allowing them to be sanitary, and having them sleep on concrete floors underneath lights.

It sounds even ******** when I read it out loud.

If you think that Trump is some uniquely evil monster, I don't know how to describe LBJ. Right now, Europe is "Let the Med take them all in", Australia considers this Amateur Hour and the less said about their fate in Saudi Arabia or Turkey the better.

 

[plague311]

If you think that Trump is some uniquely evil monster, I don't know how to describe LBJ.

Don't worry, you don't have to. I don't give a **** about LBJ since he isn't running the country. Save your "but but but" for someone else.

ETA: Times and society have changed in the 60ish years. Perhaps your problem is you haven't realized that?

 

[carlitos]

LBJ ordering pants.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Don't worry, you don't have to. I don't give a **** about LBJ since he isn't running the country. Save your "but but but" for someone else.

ETA: Times and society have changed in the 60ish years. Perhaps your problem is you haven't realized that?

My point is, Trump isn't some unique monster that sprang out of the ground. Or for a better example, how about Obama ignoring Saudi Arabia outright committing Genocide in Yemen, or setting the stage for Trump with his immigration policies? And this was happening all the way to CURRENT YEAR -3

My ultimate point is, Trump is just not putting on a filter this time unlike his predecessors. Or shall we look at how the rest of the "civilised world" handles their refugees? SPOILER: You will not like the answer to that question. This is just comparing America to its peers.

 

[plague311]

My point is, Trump isn't some unique monster that sprang out of the ground. Or for a better example, how about Obama ignoring Saudi Arabia outright committing Genocide in Yemen, or setting the stage for Trump with his immigration policies?

Is there something about "I don't give a **** about whataboutisms" that doesn't seem to be getting through?

You can sit here and make excuses, or blame it on someone else, or try to say that Trump isn't a monster, or whatever you want to do. I don't care.

He is to me though. I get he isn't to you. I don't care, but I get that you think he's perfectly fine. Trump is in charge right now. If you want to talk about what's happening now, let me know. If you want to rationalize his behavior by thinking I'm some partisan putz that condones it when Dems do it but not Repubs, I'm not really interested. This thread isn't about all that ****, it's about what's happening now. If you want to bring up the past, start a thread called "Yeah but dems though" and I'll be more than happy to ignore the hell out of that.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Is there something about "I don't give a **** about whataboutisms" that doesn't seem to be getting through?

You can sit here and make excuses, or blame it on someone else, or try to say that Trump isn't a monster, or whatever you want to do. I don't care.

He is to me though. I get he isn't to you. I don't care, but I get that you think he's perfectly fine. Trump is in charge right now. If you want to talk about what's happening now, let me know. If you want to rationalize his behavior by thinking I'm some partisan putz that condones it when Dems do it but not Repubs, I'm not really interested. This thread isn't about all that ****, it's about what's happening now. If you want to bring up the past, start a thread called "Yeah but dems though" and I'll be more than happy to ignore the hell out of that.

My point is, what makes Trump exceptionally monstrous when compared to other national leaders, or his predecessors?

 

[plague311]

My point is, what makes Trump exceptionally monstrous when compared to other national leaders, or his predecessors?

My point is...that's been explained ad nauseum, you should won't listen to anything else because you have a million whataboutisms in your back pocket just waiting to be used.

 

[I Am The Scum]

My point is, what makes Trump exceptionally monstrous when compared to other national leaders, or his predecessors?

That's a fascinating topic... for another thread.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

My point is...that's been explained ad nauseum, you should won't listen to anything else because you have a million whataboutisms in your back pocket just waiting to be used.

And you keep ignoring my point about how how Trump's predecessors and peers are enabling a context that led to this. He did NOT emerge ex nihilo in some vibrant social democracy. Trump is possible because the public opinion towards refugees and immigrants has soured IMMENSELY in the past decade. Trump is possible because his predecessors created the state apparatus necessary. Trump is possible for so many reasons.

That's a fascinating topic... for another thread.

Except people in this thread insist that Trump is the reincarnation of Hitler.

 

[Giordano]

The Onion: Tips for Staying Civil While Discussing Child Prisons.

Thank you for posting this. It is a perfect set up of the arguments seeking to excuse or apologize for these appalling actions committed in our names, the citizens of America. There is enormous truth in satire.

What can we say if we are ever asked, "How could you permit this to occur? What justification can we possibly provide that can begin to ameliorate our moral guilt, even if for those of us for which it is a guilt of inaction and omission?"

Will claims of "Well if I twist the facts I can argue that earlier administrations sometimes sort of did something sort of like it too" really alleviate our guilt as a nation or as individuals? This argument is obviously an attempt at a distraction for political reasons, but let's even accept the lie that every President since Washington was equally guilty of such heinous acts: these camps and policies represent a moral outrage and horror; the longer they existed the more abhorrent the horror!

Is this who we claim we are? Is this how we would like to see ourselves? At long last have we no decency or honor?

I am an atheist so ultimately I have to answer to only myself, which is hard enough. But what of those who identify as deeply religious and have not protested? What, for example, does a fundamentalist Christian expect to say when asked on the Day of Judgement, "Okay, let's talk about what you did when those claiming to represent you placed children and families into appalling conditions. You knew of it yet did nothing, or even actively supported those responsible. How did that fit into Christ's expectations of you? What judgement do you expect now in return?"

We must stop this evil, not only because of what is does to the victims but what it does to us.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Thank you for posting this. It is a perfect set up of the arguments seeking to excuse or apologize for these appalling actions committed in our names, the citizens of America. There is enormous truth in satire.

What can we say if we are ever asked, "How could you permit this to occur? What justification can we possibly provide that can begin to ameliorate our moral guilt, even if for those of us for which it is a guilt of inaction and omission?"

Will claims of "Well if I twist the facts I can argue that earlier administrations sometimes sort of did something sort of like it too" really alleviate our guilt as a nation or as individuals? This argument is obviously an attempt at a distraction for political reasons, but let's even accept the lie that every President since Washington was equally guilty of such heinous acts: these camps and policies represent a moral outrage and horror; the longer they existed the more abhorrent the horror!

Is this who we claim we are? Is this how we would like to see ourselves? At long last have we no decency or honor?

I am an atheist so ultimately I have to answer to only myself, which is hard enough. But what of those who identify as deeply religious and have not protested? What, for example, does a fundamentalist Christian expect to say when asked on the Day of Judgement, "Okay, let's talk about what you did when those claiming to represent you placed children and families into appalling conditions. You knew of it yet did nothing, or even actively supported those responsible. How did that fit into Christ's expectations of you? What judgement do you expect now in return?"

We must stop this evil, not only because of what is does to the victims but what it does to us.

Except, that kinda sorta ignores the lovely wee topic of Slavery, and how the US Constitution proclaimed Black People three fifths human. Not to mention how Eisenhower did far worse with Operation Wetback. As I said, this is not a Uniquely American thing, since Europe has decided "The Mediterranean shall take in the refugees from MENA" and Australia, well...

 

[JoeMorgue]

Except, that kinda sorta ignores the lovely wee topic of Slavery, and how the US Constitution proclaimed Black People three fifths human. As I said, this is not a Uniquely American thing, since Europe has decided "The Mediterranean shall take in the refugees from MENA" and Australia, well...

STOP WHATABOUTING.