The Trump Presidency 14

[Lurch]

Further proof of Trump's narcissism, and idiocy as he grasps for some goodwill in the face of his poor electoral polling.

He claims essentially that no one in military leadership and operations planning would consider the potential collateral toll in lives until *he alone*, in his boundless care for human life, deigned to inquire on the cusp of the mission's launching.

Ha ha ha ha! It's *inconceivable* that any and all US military plans and options *would not* carefully consider casualties, and be sure to communicate this emphatically. Especially when said operation is clearly of a scale of response much greater than the provoking incident, and which furthermore carries the very real risk of further escalation.

Trump is trying to be the hero.

And in so doing he has manifestly cast his military in the light of irresponsible warmongers derelict in their duty to neither *consider* nor provide such critically important information as potential human casualties resulting from a strike in a non-war operation.

Such a scandalous slur, if indeed a lie, should shock every American to the core. In a just Universe Cadet Bonespurs would be called out on it, from SecDef on down.

 

[Stacyhs]

US Intelligence gathering is often in real time or up to the minute. It depends on whether the gathering technician is in direct or indirect contact with the President/WH during the report. So any assessment made hours prior is sorely out of date and likely inaccurate. Things change.

Regardless of the death toll estimate, I'm glad President Trump did not take military action swiftly. It was a good call and wise leadership.

Chris B.

That is true....but not in this case. Trump said:

On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not....

Are you suggesting that the generals had received updated info that the casualties would be greater than they had previously told Trump but had failed to inform him of this? Or that neither he nor they had discussed the casualty toll before ordering the attack? According to Trump, it took him asking a general 10 minutes before the attack.
No, Trump backed out and as Lurch said, he's lying per his usual in an attempt to make himself appear the compassionate, wise leader.

No, your explanation just doesn't work in this case.

 

[Venom]

Does anyone here believe Trump when he says he called off the strike on Iran because he only thought to ask what the estimated casualties would be 10 minutes before? I don't.

I bet Bolton was disappointed, though. So close to attacking Iran...so close.

I.....believe him.

I mean Trump as idiotic as he sometimes is is a no-nonsense guy. I can see him saying "No.....we can't do it it's going to to endanger too many people, we can't do it"

 

[Minoosh]

Trump is trying to be the hero.

And in so doing he has manifestly cast his military in the light of irresponsible warmongers derelict in their duty to neither *consider* nor provide such critically important information as potential human casualties resulting from a strike in a non-war operation.

Such a scandalous slur, if indeed a lie, should shock every American to the core. In a just Universe Cadet Bonespurs would be called out on it, from SecDef on down.

I'm not going to break his balls over this since I agree with his decision.

The military brass already doesn't like him. Maybe this will make a difference to the rank and file but I doubt it. So many things that looked like the last straw haven't been. So far, that we know of. Maybe he's already made a fatal misstep and we just don't know yet which gaffe will undo him.

 

[Stacyhs]

More on what Trump said:

Mr. Trump further explained his decision in an interview with NBC's Chuck Todd on Friday. The president said military leaders came to him about 30 minutes before the planned strike, when he said he wanted to know one thing before moving forward — how many people would be killed? Those officials returned to him and put the number at approximately 150 people. The president said that he thought about it and considered the human toll. Mr. Trump claimed U.S. aircraft weren't in the air yet, but would have been soon, when he called off the strike.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-...n-told-150-would-likely-die-today-2019-06-21/

Trump's explanation implies he had no idea how many people would be killed because he'd never asked before or been informed. So he'd approved this attack and had the planes "locked and loaded" without having any idea what the casualties would be? Nonsense. He's lying per his usual.

 

[Stacyhs]

I'm not going to break his balls over this since I agree with his decision.

The military brass already doesn't like him. Maybe this will make a difference to the rank and file but I doubt it. So many things that looked like the last straw haven't been. So far, that we know of. Maybe he's already made a fatal misstep and we just don't know yet which gaffe will undo him.

I agree that he ultimately made the right decision but it was he who OK'd it in the first place apparently without knowing what the toll in human life would be. But that doesn't give him a pass for lying to the American people yet again.

 

[Ladewig]

I'm not going to break his balls over this since I agree with his decision.

The military brass already doesn't like him. Maybe this will make a difference to the rank and file but I doubt it. So many things that looked like the last straw haven't been. So far, that we know of. Maybe he's already made a fatal misstep and we just don't know yet which gaffe will undo him.

I’m not really picturing a last straw, but if there is one I am going to cringe 9over the idea that he might actually think to himself, “but you let me do all that other stuff, why are you considering this thing unacceptable? It’s way less worse than A,B,C,D....Z, AA, AB, AC....”

 

[Minoosh]

On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not....

Another instance of braggadocio that must alienate his staff. If he's full of it, they would know. Meanwhile an elite corps of lifelong public servants just disappear from view without a peep of protest. Or do they?

 

[Aridas]

Regardless of the death toll estimate, I'm glad President Trump did not take military action swiftly. It was a good call and wise leadership.

Chris B.

It was a good call not to attack. It was extremely unwise leadership that's brought us to this point, though.

It is, basically, yet another case of... Trump creates problem. Trump does something to alleviate the problem he created a bit. Trump wants to be praised. I don't mind praising him for the alleviation, but it's still a huge net negative and still a very real problem.

Anyways, random news time.

Trump administration backs off from slashing Job Corps centers after bipartisan outcry from Congress

The Trump administration’s move to slash federal jobs and job training for rural youth hasn’t gone according to plan. In fact, it’s not going to go at all after bipartisan outcry. The plan to shut down nine Job Corps Civilian Conservation Centers, with 16 more to be privatized or shifted to state control, was scrapped Wednesday.

It's good that they backed down! It's a WTF that they were pushing to do it in the first place, though. The Trump Administration is NOT much of a friend to rural folk, including Republicans.

This one's a bit belated, but... Trump administration identifies at least 1,700 additional children it may have separated
The children were separated from their parents before the government's "zero tolerance" policy went into effect in May 2018.

The count was 1712 over a month ago... and the Trump administration claims that it will take them 2 years to finish the review. They'll be done... during the next Presidential term, in other words? "Convenient" incompetence, eh?

Of course, the raw numbers involved are even more horrific.

Other potentially separated migrant children could still be identified. The government has reviewed the files of 4,108 children out of 50,000 so far.

1712 out of 4108. That's well over 40%. At this rate, the actual number would be over 20,000!


Meanwhile,
4 Severely Ill Migrant Toddlers Hospitalized After Lawyers Visit Border Patrol Facility
The kids were unresponsive, feverish and vomiting, yet receiving no medical care, according to lawyers.

It really does look like we're only a hair's breadth away from the Trump Administration making actual death camps, given the Trump Administration's choices.

In other news, looks like a Judge unsealed some 50 pages of Hannity/Manafort texts.

One of the interesting takeaways, though, is -

As Marcy Wheeler notes, another interesting theme in the text messages are several exchanges where Hannity and Manafort are just so sure Mueller has evidence of criminal wrongdoing against Jared Kushner. Now, why would they think that?

Also -

Sean Hannity, October 25, 2017: Republicans suck.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Leadership, i.e. having an articulated goal and parameters for achieving it, is the Antitheses of Trump, who always wants to be able to completely change course and claim that that was his plan all along.

 

[Minoosh]

Anyways, random news time.

I like your random news flashes - never feel you have to justify them! (Not saying you do, but in case.)

What does the Jared stuff mean? I always thought he had the makings of a gangster, or at least the upbringing of one, judging from his sordid family history of frame-up jobs, witness tampering and the corrupting influence of obscene quantities of cash.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

That is true....but not in this case. Trump said:



Are you suggesting that the generals had received updated info that the casualties would be greater than they had previously told Trump but had failed to inform him of this? Or that neither he nor they had discussed the casualty toll before ordering the attack? According to Trump, it took him asking a general 10 minutes before the attack.
No, Trump backed out and as Lurch said, he's lying per his usual in an attempt to make himself appear the compassionate, wise leader.

No, your explanation just doesn't work in this case.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...ot-given-final-approval-iran-strikes-n1020386

Here's the partial interview. The time mentioned was 30 minutes before the attack when he asked the "General" how many Iranians would be killed. The "General" replied "Sir I'll get back to you on that." So obviously he (the General) checked the current intelligence available and then gave Trump the 150 deaths number. At that point President Trump called it off as it was not proportional.

Keeping in mind no operation is allowed to proceed without the President's OK, no planes were in the air. My assessment is spot on according to the linked interview.

Do you think the US should have attacked Iran and killed 150 of their people over a lost drone? If not then like it or not you agree with President Trump.

Chris B.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Hilited:

And had he flattened four thousand square kilometers along the coast and killed seventeen hundred, this would've been your reaction:

Not at all. Yet if I chose to, I am allowed by Constitutional right to voice my disapproval of any of those I feel worthy of scorn in the US. It's too bad you have to keep your opinions about the monarchy silent in Thailand. I hope some day you can enjoy freedom of speech there beyond a hidden username on a web forum.

Chris B.

 

[Aridas]

I like your random news flashes - never feel you have to justify them! (Not saying you do, but in case.)

What does the Jared stuff mean? I always thought he had the makings of a gangster, or at least the upbringing of one, judging from his sordid family history of frame-up jobs, witness tampering and the corrupting influence of obscene quantities of cash.

Hard to say exactly what it means without either party clarifying what they were referring to, exactly, quite honestly.

It may well have something to do with the reasons why security clearances were denied to him until Trump stepped in, though, and the large number of undisclosed contacts where he should have disclosed them. It also might have something to do with the claims that Kushner's in foreign leaders' pockets and reasons that he may have had for likely feeding valuable and likely classified intelligence to MBS, for example. That's just speculation based on some of the *currently* known and reported problems with him, though. Hannity and Manafort may well be in a better position to know stuff that's yet to come to the public eye.

 

[AnonyMoose]

How To President (in Trumpland):

1) Create problem. (walk away from treaty because... reasons)
2) Stoke the fire. (slap on more economic sanctions because... reasons)
3) Poke the hornet's nest. (fly drone 4 miles inside of other country's airspace)
4) Sit back and wait for other country to shoot at drone. (we know they have the military capability, but pretend we're surprised anyway)
5) Claim drone attack unjustified. (lie and lie some more, show some marks on a map if necessary)
6) Give the okay to launch a retaliatory ground strike. (illegal or not, who cares?)
7) Change mind at last minute and become a humanitarian hero for all the world to praise and express gratitude for these wonderful mercies bestowed upon them.




Someone check my math, I may have missed a step...

 

[Andy_Ross]

If Trump had been doing his job and had ordered military strikes wouldn't he have been in the SituationRoom with his generals and fully aware of the latest intel?

 

[Aridas]

If Trump had been doing his job and had ordered military strikes wouldn't he have been in the SituationRoom with his generals and fully aware of the latest intel?

...You ask this of the guy who immediately goes to Mar-A-Lago after declaring a National Emergency?

 

[Andy_Ross]

How To President (in Trumpland):

1) Create problem. (walk away from treaty because... reasons)
2) Stoke the fire. (slap on more economic sanctions because... reasons)
3) Poke the hornet's nest. (fly drone 4 miles inside of other country's airspace)
4) Sit back and wait for other country to shoot at drone. (we know they have the military capability, but pretend we're surprised anyway)
5) Claim drone attack unjustified. (lie and lie some more, show some marks on a map if necessary)
6) Give the okay to launch a retaliatory ground strike. (illegal or not, who cares?)
7) Change mind at last minute and become a humanitarian hero for all the world to praise and express gratitude for these wonderful mercies bestowed upon them.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/741985bd22376db895.gif[/qimg]


Someone check my math, I may have missed a step...

6a realise that the 'enemy' might fight back and attacking isn'tthe same as makingthreats on Twitter.
6b Crap pants.

 

[Aridas]

In other news... Oregon's experiencing an interesting time. Chinese curse interesting time, that is. Democrats have super-majorities in both the House and Senate. So, what are the Republicans doing? The State Senate Republicans have all been repeatedly not showing up, so as to deny a quorum, preventing legislation from passing. It's gotten to the point where all of them have quite literally fled the state and they've involved right-wing militias to complicate matters further when presented with the threat of being compelled to actually attend and vote, aka, do one of the most important parts of their jobs.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

If Trump had been doing his job and had ordered military strikes wouldn't he have been in the SituationRoom with his generals and fully aware of the latest intel?

With the joint chiefs trying to explain the situation with model planes and plastic soldiers on a map of Iran drawn in crayon.