Stochastic Terrorism and Edgelord Humour

[Butter!]

I have a nice, solipsistic policy that works perfectly for me regarding "satire."

If I can't recognize your "satire" as such, then it isn't satire. If it seems to me like you mean it, then you mean it.


I'm only half-joking.

 

[jimbob]

Have YOU read Mein Kampf? Do you have any pull quotes from that book or any of these sources that support your understanding of Nazi ideology? If the murder of millions is as much a part of Nazi ideology as you say it is, it shouldn't be too difficult to find explicit references. Or references to passages that you believe can be interpreted as calling for mass murder.

Really?

The Holocaust happened. There was no point to it, apart from fulfilling Nazi ideology. Hitler was pretty clear, Nazi propaganda was clear.

Alternatively, what Darat said.

It really doesn't matter one iota what was written a hundred years ago. The Nazis today celebrate the Nazis that got into power and what they did so of course any Nazi today is for the killing of millions of their fellow citizens. They wouldn't have chosen to be Nazis if they weren't.

Interesting that CaptainHowdy's posts in this thread show the exact tactics that are at the heart of the topic of this thread.

I hadn't actually thought to see the argument that the Nazis were just misunderstood hippies who inadvertently murdered millions of people, not just Jews.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Who gets to make that call ?

Anyone capable of distinguishing intent, based on context. So you can sit this one out.

 

[jimbob]

Because sometimes it's satire, and sometimes it's not. Anyone who tries to treat it as all-or-nothing is an idiot.

Do you really believe that this sketch is the type of thing that Luchog is warning about in the OP, or would Luchog call that satire?

Who gets to make that call ?

Well context is important. If you have a history of promoting hate then it's probably real.

This is such a thought terminating cliche. It's meaningless.

Every change, every rule, every maintaining of the status quo, every change of the status quo is someone "making a call." It's not a new or terrifying concept. The entire point of "society" is to organize who gets to make calls and how we make them.

"Okay but look... I can still hangwring some more!" is not the answer to everything, or indeed anything.

Well said

 

[dudalb]

A. Who will decide who is a "stochastic Terrorist" and who is not? As the Romans said, Who Will Watch The Watchers?
B. I am really scared that so many people on a website allegedly devoted to skepticism seem willing to throw free speech out the window.
C. Forgive me if I think that for some this just a warmup exercise to eventually banning all who oppose their ideology.
I propose that if in fighting Nazis we become Stalinists nothing is really gained.

 

[JoeMorgue]

We're going to hangwring about where to draw the line ourselves into another Reich.

 

[dudalb]

We're going to hangwring about where to draw the line ourselves into another Reich.

And turning ourselves into another version of Stalin's Russia is any better?

 

[JoeMorgue]

And turning ourselves into another version of Stalin's Russia is any better?

Yeah because those are only two options. Just pick the direction you want the slippery slope to go but non-slippery slopes (or whatever the opposite to a slippery slope is... good traction hill? Whatever) don't exist.

 

[Giz]

We're going to hangwring about where to draw the line ourselves into another Reich.

No, we really aren't.

We can't throw out the bill of rights on behalf of chicken little.

 

[dudalb]

The scary rise of the extreme right has fourd it's reaction;the rise of the extreme left;Both have total contempt for basic freedoms in pursuit of their ideology. Both are bad news.
t

 

[theprestige]

Anyone capable of distinguishing intent, based on context.

I think the problem with that approach in the context of this thread is that one troll's satire is another lone wolf's call to violent action.

 

[I Am The Scum]

You people realize that people have been convicted for things like recruiting for ISIS, attempting to hire hitmen, and so forth? If your ability to infer intent and meaning is so weak that you think that maybe a bunch of those folks went to prison for trolling, then seriously, you need to sit this out.

 

[luchog]

Okay this is becoming an on-going thing is a lot of different discussion.

It's not satire/parody/Poe/trolling/whatever if it's functionally identical to doing the thing sincerely and leads to the same outcome.

Context is your friend.

And yes, some of the edgelord types do try to pretend it's parody or satire; but in context it's very easy to give the lie to their claims. Choice of target is an important thing to consider.

Of course, Americans (and certain Canadians) do seem to have a problem understanding satire and parody in any context. I guess because most of them are so extremist that it's hard to come up with anything so utterly exaggerated that they don't seriously believe it.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Interestingly, Shaun (the lefty youtuber) posted a video earlier today about white supremacy. His two main points are:

1. Spotting racists isn't really that difficult for those that pay attention.
2. The distinction between actual racists and pretend racists is morally insignificant.

 

[William Parcher]

Interestingly, Shaun (the lefty youtuber) posted a video earlier today about white supremacy. His two main points are:

1. Spotting racists isn't really that difficult for those that pay attention.
2. The distinction between actual racists and pretend racists is morally insignificant.

A racist is anyone that you think is a racist.

 

[I Am The Scum]

A racist is anyone that you think is a racist.

You're still not funny, William.

 

[William Parcher]

You're still not funny, William.

Having you think that I am funny is the only thing on my bucket list.

 

[Stout]

A classic example of someone simply ignoring open hatred, because "memes" or whatever.

Thank you, Stout, you have demonstrated the problem perfectly, please leave the stage.

You must have missed that open hatred I quoted or maybe you just like it and agree with it. Gas all the racists. Trump supporters are racists, right ? I could have sworn I read that somewhere on this forum.

We can start with them.

So far I've given you Gas the Jews, throwing acid in someone's face and gassing all the racists maybe you could enlighten us all and post some examples of what pass your exacting standards for what constitutes stochastic terrorism.

 

[luchog]

You must have missed that open hatred I quoted or maybe you just like it and agree with it. Gas all the racists. Trump supporters are racists, right ? I could have sworn I read that somewhere on this forum.

We can start with them.

Wow, it cannot be comfortable living in a vacuum like that. The lack of oxygen has clearly taken its toll.

Once you're able to breathe real-world air again, these might help:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_satire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_(language_use)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences)

So far I've given you Gas the Jews, throwing acid in someone's face and gassing all the racists maybe you could enlighten us all and post some examples of what pass your exacting standards for what constitutes stochastic terrorism.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12721296#post12721296

Pay particular attention to the references in the linked articles and video essays.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Really?

The Holocaust happened.

No duh!

There was no point to it, apart from fulfilling Nazi ideology.

Just saying that there was no point to the holocaust apart from fulfilling Nazi ideology doesn't answer the question. I know you believe this but I want to know why.

But Hitler was pretty clear, Nazi propaganda was clear.

Where do you find this clarity?

I hadn't actually thought to see the argument that the Nazis were just misunderstood hippies who inadvertently murdered millions of people, not just Jews.

Probably because that's kind of a stupid argument. Hippies?