2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker

[theprestige]

The history of criticism against HRC compared to that against Trump is very instructive:

Basically, anyone who bothered to get familiar with Trump knows that he is exactly the same scumbag that he has always been: he is not getting worse (except maybe mentally), his words (and few actions) just have so much more impact.

Compare that to HRC, who went from cold-hearted spouse to 'uppity First Wife playing politics' to political mastermind to criminal, sex-trafficker, satanist and baby ****** and eater.

In the interest of restoring balance, the Lamestream Media must finally tell us about Trump's daily puppy-burnings and him getting pegged by Melania whilst wearing a diaper!

The problem is that each election, and each candidate, is unique. You can't actually learn much by direct comparison, nor can you mount a successful campaign by aping what worked for a different candidate in a different campaign. And even in the same election, the campaigns are different.

---

On a tangentially-related note....

"The DOJ says Hillary probably committed crimes, but they're not going to indict! WTF?"

"Haha, suck it republickers!"

"Is that how it's going to be? Okay then. Hold my beer."

 

[The Atheist]

In response to YOU saying Biden was worse than Trump. It wasn't about who will win the election.

I'm so glad this is in the Trump thread, because that is a complete lie.

I said - and you can go and check:

Socially and economically, I don't see Biden as much of an improvement...

"Not much of an improvement" is no relation to "Worse than".

You missed that Charlotesville neo-nazi riot and the Cristchurch shooting, both clearly inspired by the idiot?

bolding mine

Wow, this Trumpism must be catching. He's such a liar and BS artist, and here you are making links that just do not exist.

I'll give you a tip - America was a racist ****-hole country before Trump, and will be for long after.

Show me any evidence that the Charlotsville death was in any way caused by Trump.

Fields’s former teacher, Derek Weimer, told the Associated Press that by the time Fields was in the ninth grade, school officials had taken note of his “deeply held, radical” beliefs about race and Nazism.

Has Trump been president for 10 years already? Must be all his opponents whining makes it seem much shorter. The bloke was always going to kill someone.

You're clutching at straws.

As to the Christchurch shooter being convinced by Trump's election and presidency, I live in NZ, so I know the details fairly well - certainly better than you - because you are repeating a thoroughly debunked conspiracy theory.

Nice work.

Why are you people complaining about Trump's lies again?

I'm not sure stacking the Supreme Court with hard liners is very funny.

I dunno - the way it's going, stacking it with white male christians, you might yet succeed in completing the theocracy you've been edging towards since at least 1954.

That would be bloody hilarious.

And a final thought for you.

At a time like these supposed dark days of America, and the takeover of SCOTUS (especially in light of his own judicial appointment constipation) you'd think the previous president might be taking some front-on action.

But nope. I saw an ad for him last night as he's about to appear on Bear Grylls' survival program. The Democratic Party could not organise a piss-up in a brewery.

 

[Cabbage]

What utter tosh - I didn't have any goalposts to move.

Ginger listed some bad things he's done. None of them are bad enough to sway voters and none of them outweigh the LULZ he's giving the rest of the world.

Just look what he's done for cetaceans. The man's even forging cross-species links.

You were responding to the claim of whether or not Trump is harmless. You changed the subject to what is/is not a major election issue (according to a poll that doesn't even address candidate competency).

 

[Cabbage]

Wow, this Trumpism must be catching. He's such a liar and BS artist, and here you are making links that just do not exist.

I'll give you a tip - America was a racist ****-hole country before Trump, and will be for long after.

Show me any evidence that the Charlotsville death was in any way caused by Trump.

OK. The last previous time such a rally of neo-Nazis/KKK hate groups occurred would be measured in DECADES. And then, within a half year of the beginning of Trump's presidency....

By the way, if you need help with the math, I happen to be a mathematician.

 

[Cabbage]

And not long before the Charlottesville tragedy, the primary organizer Heiled Trump's election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm so glad this is in the Trump thread, because that is a complete lie.

I said - and you can go and check:

"Not much of an improvement" is no relation to "Worse than".

.....

Did you for get you posted this? "If I were a US voter, I'd vote for Trump over Biden, and I'm a fair bit left of Trotsky."

What are we to make of that?

 

[Travis]

The problem is that each election, and each candidate, is unique. You can't actually learn much by direct comparison, nor can you mount a successful campaign by aping what worked for a different candidate in a different campaign. And even in the same election, the campaigns are different.

---

On a tangentially-related note....

"The DOJ says Hillary probably committed crimes, but they're not going to indict! WTF?"

"Haha, suck it republickers!"

"Is that how it's going to be? Okay then. Hold my beer."

I recall "reckless" but not "probably committed crimes." What exactly are you referring to?

 

[The Atheist]

You were responding to the claim of whether or not Trump is harmless. You changed the subject to what is/is not a major election issue (according to a poll that doesn't even address candidate competency).

Nope. I merely pointed out that the issues were not serious to be of concern to voters.

Accordingly, the claims of his harm seem rather overdone.

 

[The Atheist]

OK. The last previous time such a rally of neo-Nazis/KKK hate groups occurred would be measured in DECADES. And then, within a half year of the beginning of Trump's presidency....

By the way, if you need help with the math, I happen to be a mathematician.

I'm presuming you've just returned after 20 years on Mars.

The record number of hate groups spawned under a black president has only just been surpassed. https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-hate-groups-hit-record-number-last-year-amid-increased-violence

Go math that - a whole TWO more groups in 2018 than 2011. (Don't forget to allow for the increase in population - should be a snip for a mathematician)

Trying to blame Trump for all the sickness in American society is exactly the type of idea that will continue to harden the support for him.

There's also the blindingly obvious point that the removal of commemorative statues for Confederates neatly coincides with the rise in protest/marches by the white right.

But it's all Trump's fault...

Did you for get you posted this? "If I were a US voter, I'd vote for Trump over Biden, and I'm a fair bit left of Trotsky."

What are we to make of that?

That Biden is a terrible candidate?

He is so far from the left that I repeat my earlier statement - Biden would not be much of an improvement.

For the same reason I've changed my opinion on Warren and am now saying she's by far the best candidate, because her positions are further left than probably any contender for presidency in your entire history. Joe McCarthy would've had her on the rack.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

I hope you're all aware of how much all this non-stop banal, superficial, paparazzi-magazine-gossipy talk about "Biden said this" and "Biden did that" is so reminiscent of how people were talking about Trump when he was a candidate. Thanks for making sure the level of discourse in politics never goes an inch above that level of low.

 

[Aridas]

I hope you're all aware of how much all this non-stop banal, superficial, paparazzi-magazine-gossipy talk about "Biden said this" and "Biden did that" is so reminiscent of how people were talking about Trump when he was a candidate.

Aware, yes, and that does play into the objections to the coverage of him. When the MSM has been giving him about as much coverage as every other candidate combined, that's certainly a notable problem.

Thanks for making sure the level of discourse in politics never goes an inch above that level of low.

Tell that to the MSM. I'm quite fine with largely ignoring him other than the substantial stuff.

 

[Cabbage]

Nope. I merely pointed out that the issues were not serious to be of concern to voters.

Accordingly, the claims of his harm seem rather overdone.

No. A little reminder:

This was the specific quote you responded to, verbatim:

So even if you are not in the US and this doesn't apply to you, hopefully anyone reading it that thinks Trump is a harmless dufus will think again!

I said, "You were responding to the claim of whether or not Trump is harmless" and the above quote demonstrates that what I said is clearly correct. And there is a definite distinction between 1) What are the most important issues in this election and 2) What do you think of the competence/sanity of individual candidates.

And you shifted the goalposts between them.

QED

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...

That Biden is a terrible candidate?

He is so far from the left that I repeat my earlier statement - Biden would not be much of an improvement.

Puhleese. "Biden would not be much of an improvement" is not the equivalent of "If I were a US voter, I'd vote for Trump over Biden".
You could just admit you misspoke. All this rambling that you didn't say what you are on record saying, that you'd vote for Trump: you can't wriggle out of it. We can see your post.

 

[Brainster]

The DNC announced the 20 candidates who qualified for the first (two-part) debate. Bill De Blasio somehow made it; otherwise the list is not terribly surprising. Not qualified:

Those who did not meet the threshold for the first debate include: Montana Gov. Steve Bullock; former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel; Miramar, Florida Mayor Wayne Messam; and Rep. Seth Moulton of Massachusetts.

Bullock blamed his inability to qualify on getting in late but has an interesting argument to raise about being electable:

"I am the only one in the field that won in a Trump state and we need to win back some of the places we've lost," he said.

Both Yang and Williamson qualified.

 

[Cabbage]

I'm presuming you've just returned after 20 years on Mars.

The record number of hate groups spawned under a black president has only just been surpassed. https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-hate-groups-hit-record-number-last-year-amid-increased-violence

Go math that - a whole TWO more groups in 2018 than 2011. (Don't forget to allow for the increase in population - should be a snip for a mathematician)

Your "math" is ignoring a number of factors. For example: How large are these individual groups? To illustrate: Which is more indicative of racial tension: 100 hate groups of 10 people each or 1 hate group with 10,000 members? Of course, you can be naive and simply count a total number of hate groups and believe that tells the whole story....but you would be wrong. To illustrate this point further, from your own link:

The white supremacist group Identity Evropa more than doubled the number of its chapters.

The violent neo-Nazi organization Atomwaffen Division grew from one chapter to 27.

The white nationalist group and podcasting site The Right Stuff boasted 34 chapters.

Together, those are only three groups. As far as I can tell from the article, none of that even contributes to the small increase in number of groups from 1018 to 1020, but surely even you can see the point I'm making about how the numbers you chose to advertise are misleading. If you bother to read it, the article supports my position far more than yours. The very next sentence:

American hate groups had a bumper year in 2018 as a surge in black and white nationalist groups lifted their number to a new record high, the Southern Poverty Law Center said in a report issued Wednesday.

and later:

The number of hate groups has grown every year for the past four years, the SPLC said, a 30 percent increase roughly coinciding with President Donald Trump's election campaign and presidency. The increase followed three years of decline toward the end of the Obama administration.

and still later:

'Go-ahead' from Trump

Beirich blamed Trump's anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim statements and policies for heightening deep-seated white nationalist fears of an impending white-minority country.

The U.S. Census Bureau estimates that more than half of the nation's children are expected to be nonwhite in 2020, while the U.S. population is slated to become majority-minority in 2044.

"Rather than trying to tamp down hate, as presidents of both parties have done, President Trump elevates it with both his rhetoric and his policies," Beirich said. "In doing so, he's given people across America the go-ahead to act on their worst instincts."

To illustrate another factor you ignore: How emboldened are these groups? Do they meet relatively covertly, or do they stage a massive rally in Charlottesville and murder someone?

I stand by my original point. You should probably leave math to mathematicians; we're better trained to not naively ignore important variables like you are doing.

I'm not claiming that Trump was personally involved in organizing a hate fest such as the one in Charlottesville; what I (and I believe others) are claiming is that having such a racist enabler as Trump in the White House emboldens ass holes to organize a hate fest as in Charlottesville. You tell me, what's the last such hate fest in the US of comparable size and disaster previous to Charlottesville that YOU can recall?

Trying to blame Trump for all the sickness in American society is exactly the type of idea that will continue to harden the support for him.

You're not even listening to what I said. Admittedly, I just said it in this very post, before you've had a chance to read it, but I'm absolutely confident I'm not the first to tell you this: I'm not blaming Trump for all the sickness in America. I'm blaming Trump for giving that sickness a more powerful voice. If you're gonna argue against a straw man instead of my actual argument then please just stop wasting both our time.

There's also the blindingly obvious point that the removal of commemorative statues for Confederates neatly coincides with the rise in protest/marches by the white right.


But it's all Trump's fault...

Without taking a side over whether the statue removal is or is not justified, I'm sure you're correct. But please don't be a simpleton: That doesn't imply Trump isn't also a significant catalyst. Straw man #2. Please don't go for the Trifecta.

But thanks for the article! With it, you might even be supporting my position even better than I was!

 

[Mumbles]

Did you for get you posted this? "If I were a US voter, I'd vote for Trump over Biden, and I'm a fair bit left of Trotsky."

What are we to make of that?

In any case, claiming that Biden wouldn't be much improvement over the idiot shows a fundamental inability to understand the most basic standards and functions of government.

For that matter, many republicans, including his primary opponent Bill Weld, and prior candidate Mitt Romney (and McCain as well) would also be a massive improvement over this corrupt idiocy.

 

[Mumbles]

And not long before the Charlottesville tragedy, the primary organizer Heiled Trump's election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk

There are also issues like stripping LGBT people of there rights for no reason, taking health care access away from them, the poor, *and* women who have had abortions in the past, an effective tax hike on poor and middle class workers via tarriffs to pay for his own massive tax cuts, emboldening brutal dictatorships and crimes against humanity in Yemen...

Tell ya what, "the Atheist", why don't you just, you know, admit that you weren't thinking, and take it back, before we all just have to say "well, I guess that guy just likes watching people die for no reason."?

 

[Aridas]

In any case, claiming that Biden wouldn't be much improvement over the idiot shows a fundamental inability to understand the most basic standards and functions of government.

For that matter, many republicans, including his primary opponent Bill Weld, and prior candidate Mitt Romney (and McCain as well) would also be a massive improvement over this corrupt idiocy.

Yeah... I didn't like Romney and McCain too much, but I could respect them to some extent and believe that America would come out of a Presidency of theirs with only the usual Republican horrors. I didn't and still don't think that either would have given me real cause to support impeachment.

Trump, of course, is orders of magnitude worse. He made it perfectly clear during his campaign that he was horrendously unfit for the Presidency and he's been confirming the obvious constantly since then.

Anyways... For a little random fun, Hickenlooper took a shot at Democratic Socialism. Bernie bit back with a clip of FDR.

 

[The Atheist]

And you shifted the goalposts between them.

Utter bunkum - stick to maths, because your English comprehension is weak.

Puhleese. "Biden would not be much of an improvement" is not the equivalent of "If I were a US voter, I'd vote for Trump over Biden".

Absolutely. I gave the reason why I'd vote Trump - he's hilarious, and with only a small improvement with Biden, I'd go with the LULZ.

If someone scripted what's going on, they'd be laughed out of Hollywood, yet here you are living it.

This stuff is gold.

I'm still laughing about the Prince of Whales.

You could just admit you misspoke. All this rambling that you didn't say what you are on record saying, that you'd vote for Trump: you can't wriggle out of it. We can see your post.

I certainly didn't mis-speak, and I'm quite happy to stick by statement, which is why I just repeated it.

Have you looked at Creepy Joe's Senate voting record? His support of wars, anti-abortion laws and Wall Street?

Please do tell me why he would be such an improvement on Trump that people should vote for him.

Your "math" is ignoring a number of factors.

Speaking of shifting the goalposts...

I stand by my original point. You should probably leave math to mathematicians; we're better trained to not naively ignore important variables like you are doing.

Loads of nonsense on special this week?

For a mathematician, you don't seem very competent - maths is about using the evidence to find the reason.

You've decided on the reason and are using maths to back your claim up, but without any causal analysis. If you really are a mathematician, you ought to know that correlation is not causation. Edited to add: The far right in Europe has been on the rise since well before Trump. What you're seeing may well just be part of that cycle.

I tend to think the racists were brought out by having a ****** president just as much as they're emboldened by Trump.

You have no evidence to back your claim up.

I'm not claiming that Trump was personally involved in organizing a hate fest such as the one in Charlottesville;

Except that's exactly what you said a few posts back - you blame Trump for the murder.

He's a lot of things, but Henry II ain't one of them.

...
what I (and I believe others) are claiming is that having such a racist enabler as Trump in the White House emboldens ass holes to organize a hate fest as in Charlottesville.

Without evidence.

You can believe what you like, but it seems a bit dumb to me.

Are you sure you're a mathematician? Ever had any papers published?

You tell me, what's the last such hate fest in the US of comparable size and disaster previous to Charlottesville that YOU can recall?

Waco, McVeigh, Orlando. Oh hang on, Orlando was anti-fag. Are you pinning that on Trump as well?

Not as many people involved in Oklahoma as Charlottesville, but a lot more deadly.

I will grant you that the KKK and organised groups had declined in USA, but if you want to make a point about their resurgence, go away and do some more of that maths stuff.

How many members of WN groups have been jailed?
What impact has that had on their operations?
When did the decline start?
When did it reverse?
Has it reversed because of Trump, Obama's presidency, or the removal of Confederate meorabilia?

Show your work.

I see you haven't retracted your repeating of the CT about Trump being responsible for Tarrant's murder rampage yet. How's that coming on? Were you just hoping I'd forget it?

 

[Belz...]

I dunno - the way it's going, stacking it with white male christians, you might yet succeed in completing the theocracy you've been edging towards since at least 1954.

That would be bloody hilarious.

You and I have very different views on what's funny. Why would you think a legal situation that could strip people of their freedoms "hilarious"?