Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[GlennB]

News update: Labour plan to put forward a motion tomorrow blocking a no-deal Brexit and effectively taking the matter out of the hands of the government.

I still don't get how that would work. If the deal isn't renegotiated (and the EU say May's is the only one available) and we haven't voted to remain then a crash-out is the default.

Much as I'd like to run a 4-minute mile, no act of parliament can force me to.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Boris Johnson has said he is "not aiming for a no-deal outcome" for Brexit at the launch of his campaign for the Tory leadership.

But he said leaving no deal on the table was a "vital tool of negotiation" and the UK "must do better than the current withdrawal agreement".

"Delay means defeat, delay means Corbyn," he said, saying the UK must leave the EU on 31 October.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48602988

 

[Tolls]

There were six squirrels and two rather handsome male pheasants on our deck this morning - Christmas is sorted

I also note that the bunnehs are returning to the garden after an absence of several years so Boxing Day might be well taken care of as well

Lucky sod.
The only pheasants I see are roadkill.
And the only bunny I've seeen by the house was a young one presented to us by the cat. Don't think that would have fed many mouths.

We do get the odd deer crossing the roads nearby, but I'm not sure my Up! would survive a collision with one.

 

[The Don]

Labour motion fails:

By 309 votes to 298, MPs have rejected Labour's motion seeking to provide a way to stop a future PM forcing through a no-deal Brexit.

It means MPs will now not be able to introduce legislation on 25 June to attempt to stop the UK leaving the EU without a deal at the end of October.

No deal now inevitable IMO.

 

[The Don]

They don't have to vote for it. If Labour, SNP, LibDem ChUK, Cymru and Greens gather all their strength they have 301 votes. All they need to do is to get 38 abstinentions from Tories, DUP and independents and the motion passes.

The calculation above counts all independents as Tory Brexiteers, near as I can tell they're more likely to support the motion than oppose it. If all threw their weight behind the motion you just need 6 abstinentions.

Realistically you need more because you won't have all of your MPs present and voting for the motion, but the same goes for Tories. I reckon twenty or so abstinentions with none voting in favor should be enough, if you could get forty that's plenty and should be enough no matter what Theresa May, BJ or anyone else does or says.

McHrozni

Sadly it seems that my pessimistic assessment was right. A handful of Tory rebels offset by a larger number of Labour dissenters.

 

[Craig B]

It resulted in a centralization of what was already a single state for over 200 years at that point.

McHrozni

My quoted passage says something quite different, to wit:

the administration was subsumed into the Castilian administration, the lands of the Crown were united formally with those of Castile to legally form a single state, the kingdom of Spain​

so the Nueva Planta laws are what made a single state, not the previous fact of the Crowns of Castile and Aragon having the same monarch.

Great Britain and Hanover had the same monarch from 1714 to 1837, but were never politically united. Monarchs reigning in more than one state is a common phenomenon, well known to Scots and English people alike, as it happened here too in the period 1603 to 1707.

 

[Information Analyst]

If it's any comfort, the food shortages that very well may follow Brexit may result in a reduction of the incidence of Type-2 (a.k.a bad) diabetes.

Those with Type-1 (a.k.a. good) diabetes can be cured just by touching Nigel Farage's tweed suit - such is the power of Brexit.

Silver lining!

 

[Information Analyst]

It's the run up to Christmas as well...

At least we're growing sprouts this year, though I really don't fancy just sprouts for Christmas dinner.

Sprouts can sod off back to Brussels!

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Sprouts can sod off back to Brussels!

Just rename them Freedom Brassicas.

 

[Information Analyst]

Just rename them Freedom Brassicas.

Foul by any other name.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Boris says "I took this city through riots"
He was on holiday in Canada and refused to come back and was heckled and booed bin Clapham when he finally turned up days later.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Labour MP refuses to support a Labour motion to prevent no deal



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-...011805ca5d26066d474bdd&pinned_post_type=share
I cannot decide whether Labour are a shambles, a shower or a combination of the two

So he is ruling out a no deal but refusing to vote to that effect? I get the futile nature of the vote but if non binding votes can cause this surely they have some utility.

 

[Information Analyst]

Boris says "I took this city through riots"
He was on holiday in Canada and refused to come back and was heckled and booed bin Clapham when he finally turned up days later.

Fake boos!

 

[Vixen]

Labour MP refuses to support a Labour motion to prevent no deal



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-...011805ca5d26066d474bdd&pinned_post_type=share
I cannot decide whether Labour are a shambles, a shower or a combination of the two

The silliness - which is deadly serious - continues. Rory Stewart said he was going to support it originally, but then backpedalled. They were all under the whip. Only lost by about eleven (?) votes. Corbyn hopping with fury shouting, 'You won't be cheering in September', at the baying Tory benches.

 

[Vixen]

I still don't get how that would work. If the deal isn't renegotiated (and the EU say May's is the only one available) and we haven't voted to remain then a crash-out is the default.

Much as I'd like to run a 4-minute mile, no act of parliament can force me to.

The plan was to pass legislation to make it statutory that a new PM/government couldn't bring about 'no deal' by design or default.

 

[Vixen]

Boris Johnson has said he is "not aiming for a no-deal outcome" for Brexit at the launch of his campaign for the Tory leadership.

But he said leaving no deal on the table was a "vital tool of negotiation" and the UK "must do better than the current withdrawal agreement".

"Delay means defeat, delay means Corbyn," he said, saying the UK must leave the EU on 31 October.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48602988

Full of bluster as per usual.

The thing about Boris is, he has populist appeal, and that is also the where he is a double-edged sword. His buffoonery and faux bonhommie hides a really nasty character who really believes himself and his chums from the Bullingdon Club to be superior to the hoi-polloi and entitled to have generous tax breaks and to **** on the lower classes and 'immigrants' from a great height.

To achieve this he has to get the popular vote as he can't come out doing a goosestep and Roman salutes, although he's got the 'bark' of a dictator just right.

 

[jimbob]

So he is ruling out a no deal but refusing to vote to that effect? I get the futile nature of the vote but if non binding votes can cause this surely they have some utility.

This came up on my facebook feed:

https://www.ft.com/content/8d7d7e0e-8719-11e9-a028-86cea8523dc2

Opinion FT Magazine
Eight reasons Tory MPs keep getting it wrong
When it comes to Brexit, poor cognition is the curse of Britain’s governing class
SIMON KUPER

 

[GlennB]

The plan was to pass legislation to make it statutory that a new PM/government couldn't bring about 'no deal' by design or default.

Yes, but how can you legislate to avoid the default? What would replace it that might survive a vote? My default is failing to run a 4-minute mile, and no legislation could make me do it even if I were willing.

 

[Vixen]

Yes, but how can you legislate to avoid the default? What would replace it that might survive a vote? My default is failing to run a 4-minute mile, and no legislation could make me do it even if I were willing.

I expect it would need to be qualified by the words, 'there can be no 'no-deal' Brexit without first putting it to the people of the UK as a referendum question: namely, 'Do you accept a no-deal'? Yes/No. If no, then Article 50 will be revoked until such time a deal can be negotiated.'

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Full of bluster as per usual.

The thing about Boris is, he has populist appeal, and that is also the where he is a double-edged sword. His buffoonery and faux bonhommie hides a really nasty character who really believes himself and his chums from the Bullingdon Club to be superior to the hoi-polloi and entitled to have generous tax breaks and to **** on the lower classes and 'immigrants' from a great height.

To achieve this he has to get the popular vote as he can't come out doing a goosestep and Roman salutes, although he's got the 'bark' of a dictator just right.

Gee, now where have I heard something like this?

Apparently Boris also tells people what they want to hear then contradicts that with the next group that want to hear something else. And refusing to answer the media about that when questioned. (Per France 24 news)

I wonder if Trump is envious of Boris' hair.