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Stochastic Terrorism and Edgelord Humour

To me that can be translated to "of I don't get it, I get to make my own meaning then attack you based on that. ".

Sorry but I'm not really willing to let humor have to be bubbled wrapped and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator for the sake of people that sniff around for offense like a dog looking for floor snacks.

I think it gets even muddier because some people online really are just using edgy humor, while as others are propelled by more sinister motives. Personally, I have no desire to see humor policed. However, with the way things are these days, I find that I personally am less likely to give an edgelord the benefit of the doubt.

If someone makes a mean black joke or something, I don't automatically assume they're a low-key terrorist or a social engineer. But I am starting to assume that they're probably someone I don't like. Edgy humor has lost some of its flavor for me; it's not really funny anymore (the stuff that was ever funny), because there are so many people out there saying the same **** who really mean it. I've decided I'm done trying to tell the difference. If they can't be bothered to set themselves apart from the human garbage infesting the internet and culture, then I can't be bothered to look for any distinction either.

EDIT: When I say it's lost some of its flavor, I feel I should clarify - I never thought race jokes were funny. (Well, one time in high school my friend called her Native American mother 'Sitting Bull ****' when she was mad at her. I thought that was pretty funny.) But I did used to find certain trolls amusing, and jokes about women never bothered me unless they were really mean. That has changed. I didn't make it change, it just did.
 
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Since the founding of America, free speech has seen off:

-Monarchists

-Slavery

-Imperialists

-Nazis

-Communists

-Segregationists

But there’s no way it can see off internet edgelords. Farewell free speech, you had a good run but it’s time to retire and let ‘approved speakers and boundaries’ have a turn!
"...At this level, the rhetoric is still generalized enough to seem more or less harmless, and is often defended as "free speech" despite its implications. .."

Did you read the style guide?

Plus of course the argument and views put forward in the opening post isn't against free speech, it's about people understanding what is being said.
 
"...At this level, the rhetoric is still generalized enough to seem more or less harmless, and is often defended as "free speech" despite its implications. .."

Did you read the style guide?

Plus of course the argument and views put forward in the opening post isn't against free speech, it's about people understanding what is being said.

Have you ever heard of “throwing the baby out with the bath water “?

There are evil, reprehensible people out there. But you are going to give up on essential freedoms in a huge overreaction to them. To quote a phrase from the war on terror:

“We must not alter fundamental precepts of US law in responding to terrorism. If we do, then the terrorists have won.”
 
Have you ever heard of “throwing the baby out with the bath water “?

That metaphor only works if we assume dirty bathwater is our only reliable source of babies.

Horrible, violent people are counting on the good people of the world handwringing themselves into indecisiveness. Don't fall for it.
 
That metaphor only works if we assume dirty bathwater is our only reliable source of babies.

Horrible, violent people are counting on the good people of the world handwringing themselves into indecisiveness. Don't fall for it.

Don’t stand there handwringing! Take Action X!

What’s Action X?
 
Have you ever heard of “throwing the baby out with the bath water “?



There are evil, reprehensible people out there. But you are going to give up on essential freedoms in a huge overreaction to them. To quote a phrase from the war on terror:



“We must not alter fundamental precepts of US law in responding to terrorism. If we do, then the terrorists have won.”

I'm trying not to he sarcastic and be a nice member...

Cultures and societies like the UK and the USA have become freer than ever by not being tolerant of intolerance.

Then to your general complaint, given the opening post that can only be valid if you think people shouldn't have the information to understand what other people are doing and saying, which would be of course opposite to what I think you are trying to say.
 
Don’t stand there handwringing! Take Action X!



What’s Action X?
In a medium like this it is doing what the opening poster did, help people better understand the world around us. In other arenas such as "real life" it is campaigning for laws that for example would ensure those who wish to kill millions of their fellow citizens are prevented from propagating their actions probably by imprisonment or other restrictions on free assembly until they can be deradicalised.
 
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In a medium like this it is doing what the opening poster did, help people better understand the world around us. In other arenas such as "real life" it is campaigning for laws that for example would ensure those who wish to kill millions of their fellow citizens are prevented from propagating their actions probably by imprisonment or other restrictions on free assembly until they can be deradicalised.

Okay. Who’s going to jail?
 
Anyone who proposes to kill millions of their fellow citizens, so one group for certain would be those that describe themselves as Nazis. An example from the UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-oxfordshire-46592080

Members of neo-Nazi organizations with explicitly violent aims and weapons?

No problem there. I think we already have laws regarding proscribed organizations.

My understanding is that the OP is not talking about trrrorist organizations, though.
 
Wait a minute, how come that group is the first fat right group to be proscribed since WW2. Is Combat 18 not proscribed?
 
Members of neo-Nazi organizations with explicitly violent aims and weapons?

No problem there. I think we already have laws regarding proscribed organizations.

My understanding is that the OP is not talking about trrrorist organizations, though.

America doesn't have such laws though, and the issue here is that these are not organization based terrorism but the fun individual faux terrorism like in Christchurch. People advocating that of course are protected by the first amendment until someone listens to them, then it retroactively becomes incitement.

Next people will be saying that sending death threats to elected officials is something that is illegal. And yet none of those who send death threats to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez dailly seem to go to jail.
 
Members of neo-Nazi organizations with explicitly violent aims and weapons?



No problem there. I think we already have laws regarding proscribed organizations.



My understanding is that the OP is not talking about trrrorist organizations, though.
But they never took any action.

Another one would be the author of the style guide "This is obviously a ploy and I actually do want to gas kikes. But that’s neither here nor there" just like he was say a member of ISIS saying the same thing.
 
Anyone who proposes to kill millions of their fellow citizens, so one group for certain would be those that describe themselves as Nazis.
I don't read what these hate groups write. But how do they propose to kill millions? Are they planning to do it the original Nazi way with trains bringing the millions to gas chambers in concentration camps?
 
But I think in some form or other this phenomenon has been around for longer than one might think. It's essentially the refinement of the old Henry and Becket faceoff.
There a two main things that I find a bit frightening about that article

1. That white supremacist blogs actually go to all this trouble to try to legitimize their writing. It shows they are not fooling around with this stuff - they have a target audience, a plan on how to appeal to that audience, and they execute that plan very well.


Demagoguery and "whipping-up" rhetoric have been around forever. What's changed is that there is a better understanding of the psychology of communication, and that is being exploited by the demagogues to further their agenda while maintaining distance from it.

The really disturbing thing is that this is all heavily based in the psychology of marketing. The terrorists have learned how to advertise effectively, and make their calls to action indirect and implied, and thus more effective (along with being deniable).

If you look at the history of advertising, there has been a huge shift in how the communication works, how it's targeted, and how it's structured. The primary emphasis is on association, implication, and emotion rather than factual details. This has become especially true in the age of "viral marketing", where a small amount of effort on the part of the marketer to create "memes" shifts much of the effort off of the marketers themselves, and onto the targets of their marketing, who can be expected to self-market by sharing the memes. The use of humour in viral marketing is one of the most effective techniques for prompting a viral propagation of the advertisement.

This has been picked up on by the Right and Far Right, who have been increasingly effective at implementing this sort of "viral marketing" of their worldview and calls to action.

2. There are a fair percentage of people out there who are stupid enough to fall for their rhetoric. We even have a few of theme right here in this forum.


The Right has always been effective at marketing, because they understand it better than the Left, and their worldview is far more easily adapted to marketing than the Left's worldview.

They key components of the Right's messaging:

1) Abdication of responsibility for one's person circumstances. Despite paying lip service to "personal responsibility", the fundamental goal of the Right is to blame someone or something else for one's own failures and inabiliy to improve one's personal and/or financial status.

2) Scapegoating for social and economic problems. After abdicating responsibility, blame must be cast on another entity. Immigrants, certain ethnic groups (Jews and black people most commonly), homosexuals and transexuals, Muslims, and so on. There must be a convenient marginalized group to make the target of fear and focus of hatred to distract from the true nature and complexity of the problems.

3) Simple answers to complex questions. Humans do not like complexity, complexity is hard and takes considerable effort to understand. People prefer simple answers to the problems of social upheaval, economic instability, and their own sub-optimal life circumstances. Even better if these answers absolve the mainstream of responsibility for their circumstances, and put the blame on someone or something else, as noted in 1 and 2. The ultimate answer is always, "put your trust and support in a strong-man leader, and your problems will be fixed for you".

That is a very simple and easy message to market: It's not your fault, it's this other groups fault, vote for me and I'll punish them and reward you.

The message of the Progressive Left is considerably more complex, depends heavily on people being intelligent and introspective enough to take true responsibility for their circumstances, and understanding the complicated social forces that can stymie personal efforts to improve one's circumstances. It's very difficult to distill into quick-and-dirty sound bites and slogans; and therefore harder to market as effectively as the reactionary worldview.

This is just the Right hoisting the Left up by one of their highest and proudest petards... "tolerance."


That is because the Left fetishizes the concept of "tolerance" the same way that centrists and libertarians fetishize the concepts of "free speech" and "liberty" without truly understanding the nature and limitations of those concepts. I've posted this link a number of times, but it continues to be relevant and IMO very important to understand: Tolerance is not a moral precept[/quote]. It's a peace treaty, not a suicide pact, and once the treaty has been broken by one side ,the other side is no longer obligated to abide by it. "Tolerance of the intolerant" is not a valid expression of the principle, and it is in fact diametrically opposed to the concept of tolerance, because the result is a lessening, not a growth, of tolerance.
 
I'm wary if the term "stochastic terrorism" in the same way I was wary of "fake news". And that was one of the few things I was right about around the time of the election.

"Stochastic terrorism" allows criticism and opposition to be cast as an act of violence. If the term gains popularity, it will absolutely be of far most used by the disingenuous right wing to paint their critics as terrorists.
 

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