Major road to be renamed

[arthwollipot]

Did you miss the part where the committee recommended against renaming Haig Park, reasoning that the events that Haig was involved in would "help inform discussion around Australia’s experience in WWI"? Still think it's all about rewriting history?

 

[cullennz]

Did you miss the part where the committee recommended against renaming Haig Park, reasoning that the events that Haig was involved in would "help inform discussion around Australia’s experience in WWI"? Still think it's all about rewriting history?

That I agree with

Sorry. I stupidly was hazing the line with what the US is doing and what Aus is doing

 

[Checkmite]

So "alleged" means guilty?

Do you think that a corpse enjoys the living person's presumption of innocence under the law in perpetuity?

What does "presumption of innocence" actually mean to a person who even in theory will never face arrest or imprisonment, can never be put on trial, can never face an accuser, and so forth? Does a person's death preemptively nullify any implication of any facts discovered about them after their death?

 

[Darat]

A bit of local news.



William Slim Drive to be renamed following Government review into place names







So what do you think? Should things be renamed if the people they were named after are discovered to have been terrible people?

100 year rule.

 

[lionking]

Did you miss the part where the committee recommended against renaming Haig Park, reasoning that the events that Haig was involved in would "help inform discussion around Australia’s experience in WWI"? Still think it's all about rewriting history?

Now this is where the committee has drunk the cool aid. As I said earlier, I don't think of Bolte when I drive over the Bolte Bridge. Does this committee really think people will say "oh, I'm in Haig Park, so I will now go and research this Haig guy, whoever he is. A footballer maybe? Anyway I will make sure I will be able to engage in informed discussion about whatever this guy did".

This issue of zero interest to the vast majority of the public and only resonates with the chattering class, of which I'm one I suppose. What people will be certainly pissed off about is when they are looking for "******* William Slim Drive" when they are running late for a plane.

Politicians, even those in a Territory the size of a Sydney suburb, should have better things to do.

 

[a_unique_person]

Change the name to Virginia Slim Drive and have billboards erected every few kilometres in her honour.

Fun fact. Canberra doesn't have billboards. They are prohibited.

 

[lionking]

Fun fact. Canberra doesn't have billboards. They are prohibited.

Bloody hell, you are right. How did Canberra cope without Palmer’s Make Australia Great billboards....

 

[Belz...]

I’ve said this in other similar threads about statues and so on, if you judged every historical figure on today’s standards, no statues would survive. Churchill? Nasty piece of work, sexist, probably racist. Out with you. Every royal, general, admiral and political leader prior to the 20th century? Racists, autocrats, bullies all of you. No statues, no names.

History shouldn’t work like that.

True.

Here's an alternative: stop giving people names to roads!

 

[applecorped]

How long until Michael Jackson Avenue is renamed?

 

[Giz]

For the third time, No-one really doubts it.

Since it's clear that I'm going to have to spell it out because no-one's looking at the link I provided, Slim was the patron of Fairbridge Farm, which at the time was assisting with several child migration programs. In 2007, several people came forward to say that they had been sexually abused by Slim at the farm, and by 2014 it had been referred to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.

According to one report, up to 60% of children who went through Fairbridge Farm were sexually abused.

What that link doesn’t prove is whether slim was part of it. Governor generals are probably patrons to a lot of things.

(Trivia: my dad and uncle were sent Rhodesia as part of the Fairbridge scheme)

 

[BStrong]

A bit of local news.

William Slim Drive to be renamed following Government review into place names

So what do you think? Should things be renamed if the people they were named after are discovered to have been terrible people?

San Francisco re-named Army street Cesar Chavez Blvd:

http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=A_Brief_History_of_Cesar_Chavez/Army_Street

This view of Chavez as a leader is not discussed in S.F. politics:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/the-madness-of-cesar-chavez/308557/

He embraced Ferdinand Marcos and the Synanon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon

philosophy. If that shouldn't disqualify someone from public approval I don't know what would.

 

[rjh01]

I’ve said this in other similar threads about statues and so on, if you judged every historical figure on today’s standards, no statues would survive. Churchill? Nasty piece of work, sexist, probably racist. Out with you. Every royal, general, admiral and political leader prior to the 20th century? Racists, autocrats, bullies all of you. No statues, no names.

History shouldn’t work like that.

A lot of Churchill’s attitudes, behaviours and decisions are abhorrent by the contemporary standards of some. Like Slim, he was a war hero. You have judged Slim to be not appropriate to be commemorated on the basis of an untried allegation. What about Churchill?

Let us judge people by the standards of the day. Was it legal to abuse children in the 1950s and before? If not, then the road should be renamed. As for Churchill was it illegal then to be a nasty piece of work, sexist, probably racist? I doubt it. So Churchill is ok, William Slim is not. And that is by the criteria of judging people by the standard of the day.

 

[lionking]

Let us judge people by the standards of the day. Was it legal to abuse children in the 1950s and before? If not, then the road should be renamed. As for Churchill was it illegal then to be a nasty piece of work, sexist, probably racist? I doubt it. So Churchill is ok, William Slim is not. And that is by the criteria of judging people by the standard of the day.

Gut feel? The vibe?

All we have are allegations decades after the alleged offences.

And your suggestion to judge people by the standards of their day is exactly what I’m arguing. Of course I don’t want Churchill’s name erased. Nor do I want to see the destruction of statues of past great leaders who might fail every character test today.

 

[Giz]

Gut feel? The vibe?

All we have are allegations decades after the alleged offences.
.

Some similar high profile allegations made in the uk have ended up being found to be without merit (after trashing someone’s reputation), so I’d like a bit more before trashing a war hero.

 

[a_unique_person]

Charismatic sociopaths can make excellent wartime leaders. There are living survivors of abuse from Slim. I see nothing wrong with admitting to ourselves that just what war means. What it takes to win. What it means when we delude ourselves about protecting our heroes from scrutiny.

 

[fuelair]

Who's being convicted? The guy's dead. Also, his sexual assault of minors is pretty well established as fact. The impetus for the name change wasn't some random politician, it was a submission to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. And it wasn't some nameless nobody politician who announced the decision, it was Mick Gentleman, who is a veteran MLA and quite well-regarded in the community.

Actually there is a fairly substantial cost to changing the name of a major road as all signage, maps and related records need to be updated.

ETA but that's obvious so I'm not sure why I mentioned it. Maybe I'm in a bit of a **** mood tonight as well.

I now acknowledge you beat me to it - I answered that post immediately on seeing it...…….


Nevermind, I did not click to post it apparently. It is early here.

 

[lionking]

There are too many people in this thread that I like. I think I will exit stage left.

 

[Vixen]

Anything once called 'Hitler Drive' or Stalin Walk' has probably been changed by now.

 

[Myriad]

Anything once called 'Hitler Drive' or Stalin Walk' has probably been changed by now.

Even if only in the interest of fairness. Why should Hitler get to drive while Stalin has to walk?

 

[mgidm86]

A bit of local news.

William Slim Drive to be renamed following Government review into place names



So what do you think? Should things be renamed if the people they were named after are discovered to have been terrible people?

Depends on how terrible. Then again, what would be so bad about Ivan The Terrible Lane?

I'll keep it simple and just vote "no". Someone will always complain no mater what. And, as usual, who decides how bad "bad" is? Tired of this crap.