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Circular Economy & Recycling & e-Waste

Orphia Nay

Penguilicious Spodmaster
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Joined
May 2, 2005
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Australia
I'll start the topic with a link dump:

Circular Economy (Wikipedia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_economy


E-Waste Offers an Economic Opportunity as Well as Toxicity (NYT):

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/05/...economic-opportunity-as-well-as-toxicity.html


Promoting the circular economy can also stimulate consumption (China Daily)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201903/08/WS5c81b04ca3106c65c34ed6e2.html


This is a concept/term I've become interested in, and would like anyone to add any thoughts they've had on this.
 
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I've been doing this my whole life. I grew up on a farm where everything was recycled as much as possible. I wore second-hand clothes, played with second-hand toys and rode to school on a second-hand bike. My current house was built in 1980 - still has the original carpets and decor etc. My refrigerator was second-hand when I bought it in 1978 - still working perfectly 40 years later. I recently bought a 'new' 7 year old Nissan Leaf, and sold my old car for scrap. Almost everything I own is either second-hand or was purchased decades ago.

I ran a computer store where we took trade-ins and resold the machines or made up systems from the parts. I am now into 'vintage' computers, which are becoming so valuable today that nobody throws them away. To maintain them I buy recycled parts from eBay. I also do electronic repairs and make projects using bits scavenged from old equipment. People leave stuff on my door-step rather than throw it away because they know I can use it (maybe even to fix their stuff!).

Sadly, most modern electronic devices don't have anything in them worth scavenging, which is one reason I prefer working on the older stuff. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's no good. My main computer was made in 1994 and is still going well, even still does email and accesses many of the websites I frequent. For things it can't do I have a couple of PCs running XP and Linux - both given to me for nothing!

Why throw stuff away when it can be reused or stripped down for parts and the materials recycled? Only because our 'consumer economy' demands constant production and consumption. But for those of us who lived in a time when technology was expensive and things were designed to be maintained, throwing serviceable stuff away just to get the latest version seems stupid. And if you no longer want something, why not pass it on to someone who does?

Capitalists hate people like me. What good is owning the 'means of production' if people don't keep buying your stuff? You sell something once and the bastards just swap it between themselves, or keep it forever and treat it with respect so it doesn't break! How can you get rich when they are not being good consumers?

But in the long run an economy that doesn't recycle is doomed. Even before resources run out the waste becomes a problem. Our wold is now suffering from waste on a global scale, and it's only going to get worse - much worse if we don't do something about it. Cheap oil driving our economy, but we have to keep (over)consuming to prop it up. And the devastation caused by the waste (CO2 etc.) will last for centuries.
 
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The electronic waste salvage makes rare valuable metals reappear from stuff. But for every gram of mercury or gold there is s ton of plastic nobody knows how to effectivele reuse and a barrel of toxic chemicals used in the extraction. In places like the US the wastes are what kills the profit margin of the desired products. The EPA and other like agencies in Europe will ensure that it won't be done there legally and profitability for a while more.

To do that more work has to go into reprocessing the residues for possibly more useful products and a relatively safe final waste that can be disposed of in a low cost manner. Maybe getting some of the chemicals back into the process for multiple uses.

As for homebrew recycling, I do that too. Some of our fave furniture is recycled wood and fasteners in a true depression era spirit. I went through a phase a few years ago. I still make some just for fun.

Handmade paint trays and rollers, ladders for use around the house also. Because I could..

A plan to make a rooftop garden of cast off rustic bits is in progress but goes slowly. Rebuilt bikes from used bits to transport long lumber and somewhat larger loads, yup, one in progress. I hate paying others. And I am getting long in the tooth to walk it home over a few days.


I am not sure some of my efforts are for the better long term but our portion of landfill use is minimal and a lot of worthless material gets another run at life.


I am sure after my funeral that the final tally will take a hard turn when my wife and son clean out my shop.
 
Promoting the circular economy can also stimulate consumption (China Daily)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201903/08/WS5c81b04ca3106c65c34ed6e2.html.
In spite of the buzzword "economy", this article does not address the fundamental weakness of the economic system. It can only function if there is endless exponential growth. Without it, the economy stagnates, people are thrown out on the economic scrap heap and living standards fail. Needless to say, this requires never ending increases in production (and a corresponding increase in the rate of consumption of this planet) even if what is produced can not be consumed in its entirety (waste).

Similarly, although the article expounds on the virtues of re-use and recycling, it does not establish a link between that and increased consumption.
 
I've been doing this my whole life. I grew up on a farm where everything was recycled as much as possible. I wore second-hand clothes, played with second-hand toys and rode to school on a second-hand bike. My current house was built in 1980 - still has the original carpets and decor etc. My refrigerator was second-hand when I bought it in 1978 - still working perfectly 40 years later. I recently bought a 'new' 7 year old Nissan Leaf, and sold my old car for scrap. Almost everything I own is either second-hand or was purchased decades ago.

I ran a computer store where we took trade-ins and resold the machines or made up systems from the parts. I am now into 'vintage' computers, which are becoming so valuable today that nobody throws them away. To maintain them I buy recycled parts from eBay. I also do electronic repairs and make projects using bits scavenged from old equipment. People leave stuff on my door-step rather than throw it away because they know I can use it (maybe even to fix their stuff!).

Sadly, most modern electronic devices don't have anything in them worth scavenging, which is one reason I prefer working on the older stuff. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's no good. My main computer was made in 1994 and is still going well, even still does email and accesses many of the websites I frequent. For things it can't do I have a couple of PCs running XP and Linux - both given to me for nothing!

Why throw stuff away when it can be reused or stripped down for parts and the materials recycled? Only because our 'consumer economy' demands constant production and consumption. But for those of us who lived in a time when technology was expensive and things were designed to be maintained, throwing serviceable stuff away just to get the latest version seems stupid. And if you no longer want something, why not pass it on to someone who does?

Capitalists hate people like me. What good is owning the 'means of production' if people don't keep buying your stuff? You sell something once and the bastards just swap it between themselves, or keep it forever and treat it with respect so it doesn't break! How can you get rich when they are not being good consumers?

But in the long run an economy that doesn't recycle is doomed. Even before resources run out the waste becomes a problem. Our wold is now suffering from waste on a global scale, and it's only going to get worse - much worse if we don't do something about it. Cheap oil driving our economy, but we have to keep (over)consuming to prop it up. And the devastation caused by the waste (CO2 etc.) will last for centuries.

Great reply! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Capitalists have us working long hours for just enough money that we have to buy new things because we don't have time to fix/sell/recycle old things, or learn how to, or feel positive enough to.

The electronic waste salvage makes rare valuable metals reappear from stuff. But for every gram of mercury or gold there is s ton of plastic nobody knows how to effectivele reuse and a barrel of toxic chemicals used in the extraction. In places like the US the wastes are what kills the profit margin of the desired products. The EPA and other like agencies in Europe will ensure that it won't be done there legally and profitability for a while more.

To do that more work has to go into reprocessing the residues for possibly more useful products and a relatively safe final waste that can be disposed of in a low cost manner. Maybe getting some of the chemicals back into the process for multiple uses.

As for homebrew recycling, I do that too. Some of our fave furniture is recycled wood and fasteners in a true depression era spirit. I went through a phase a few years ago. I still make some just for fun.

Handmade paint trays and rollers, ladders for use around the house also. Because I could..

A plan to make a rooftop garden of cast off rustic bits is in progress but goes slowly. Rebuilt bikes from used bits to transport long lumber and somewhat larger loads, yup, one in progress. I hate paying others. And I am getting long in the tooth to walk it home over a few days.


I am not sure some of my efforts are for the better long term but our portion of landfill use is minimal and a lot of worthless material gets another run at life.


I am sure after my funeral that the final tally will take a hard turn when my wife and son clean out my shop.

Great work! :thumbsup: :)

I've been looking into what can now be recycled in my town.

Soft plastic, bottle top lids, bread tags, office supplies & pens, and lots more things you may already have heard of.

I think we have nearly as many second-hand clothes shops as we do new clothes shops.

In spite of the buzzword "economy", this article does not address the fundamental weakness of the economic system. It can only function if there is endless exponential growth. Without it, the economy stagnates, people are thrown out on the economic scrap heap and living standards fail. Needless to say, this requires never ending increases in production (and a corresponding increase in the rate of consumption of this planet) even if what is produced can not be consumed in its entirety (waste).

Similarly, although the article expounds on the virtues of re-use and recycling, it does not establish a link between that and increased consumption.

Not sure why "economy" equates only to "growth".

Especially in China, where negative population growth is predicted from 2030.

That assumes someone has to profit out of people being alive.

If goods and energy production and food production are sustainable, why can't the economy be sustainable too?

Just been watching a talk on Universal Basic Income, but we don't need to debate that issue, though it's an idea that might end up being synchronous with less global over-consumption, or even not "socialist" enough.

We may not all need as much income if we realise the harms of this endless neophilia and consumption of novelty items, toys, fast fashion.

We could all be happy exercising, and teaching, creating, growing, cooking, and mending/repurposing things.
 
In spite of the buzzword "economy", this article does not address the fundamental weakness of the economic system. It can only function if there is endless exponential growth. Without it, the economy stagnates, people are thrown out on the economic scrap heap and living standards fail. Needless to say, this requires never ending increases in production (and a corresponding increase in the rate of consumption of this planet) even if what is produced can not be consumed in its entirety (waste).

Similarly, although the article expounds on the virtues of re-use and recycling, it does not establish a link between that and increased consumption.

True, current economic models need constant growth, but we can pick growth of what.
Eco-friendliness could just as easily be the benchmark as revenue.
 
In many times and places exactly what farmers do is borrow money every Spring for seeds, etc. Come Fall they pay off their loans with part of the crop and have the rest to eat/sell.
 
In many times and places exactly what farmers do is borrow money every Spring for seeds, etc. Come Fall they pay off their loans with part of the crop and have the rest to eat/sell.

... at which point, they have to produce more than before to service the interest - hence GROWTH.


Which might or might not work, depending on factors not under the farmers' control.

Debt bondage due to farmers going bankrupt was so endemic in ancient times that regular debt amnesties were necessary to bring workers back to the fields.

An economy working with debt by necessity requires growth.
 
I think I didn't do a very good job of asking my question. I'm wondering whether people have some particular mathematical (not necessarily formal) model in mind.
 
Not sure why "economy" equates only to "growth".

Especially in China, where negative population growth is predicted from 2030.
Negative population growth equates to negative demand growth which is disastrous for businesses.

Maybe as a planned economy, China can avoid the worst of the recessionary pressures that a declining population will bring but planned economies don't have a good track record.
 
You are describing a subsistence economy and we definitely don't have a subsistence economy.

Okay, but why is it different in a market economy?

More to the point, I'm trying to understand why quite a few people here think that an economy with investments necessarily requires some kind of unsustainable growth.
 
Okay, but why is it different in a market economy?

More to the point, I'm trying to understand why quite a few people here think that an economy with investments necessarily requires some kind of unsustainable growth.
An oversimplified explanation would be that debt facilitates additional production. Rising debt levels require increasing amounts of production (and consumption) which requires more debt to service that debt.

In an economy without growth (or growth only consistent with population increases) there can't be any winners without losers and everybody wants to win. A system that facilitates exponential growth helps create more winners (even if it is mostly at the top).
 
An oversimplified explanation would be that debt facilitates additional production. Rising debt levels require increasing amounts of production (and consumption) which requires more debt to service that debt.

Thanks. That's a responsive answer.

Investment certainly can contribute to growth (seems to me that's a good thing, but that's a separate question).

But consider a world in which debt facilitates additional production. The lenders receive more than they lent, and then eat the excess leaving just enough to lend out again next year. Next year debt begins at exactly the same level as it did this year.
 
Thanks. That's a responsive answer.

Investment certainly can contribute to growth (seems to me that's a good thing, but that's a separate question).

But consider a world in which debt facilitates additional production. The lenders receive more than they lent, and then eat the excess leaving just enough to lend out again next year. Next year debt begins at exactly the same level as it did this year.

In this case, the lender accumulates more wealth, which he will lend to another farmer, increasing his need to produce.
 
But consider a world in which debt facilitates additional production. The lenders receive more than they lent, and then eat the excess leaving just enough to lend out again next year. Next year debt begins at exactly the same level as it did this year.

In this case, the lender accumulates more wealth, which he will lend to another farmer, increasing his need to produce.

In the example I gave the lender eats the excess, so they don't accumulate more wealth. When they lend again, they get the same excess again. So total production is consumed each year, part by the farmer and part by the lender as a return to capital. The economy is in a steady-state with no tendency to grow or shrink.
 

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