2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker

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Lambchops said:
The US does not exist in a vacuum. There are no "Extreme left" candidates over there. Full stop. Unless you want to buy into the ridiculuos bullcrap of the US right wing.

In that case, may Allah have mercy on your soul.
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You completely ducked the questions. You seem to be adverse to facts.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Yes, he is. Many European systems use a combination of cost sharing and uncovered services.

His plan has no cost sharing and covers more than probably any European country.
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European countries have mandatory enrollment. Obamacare tried that and failed in the courts in Red States.

And European health insurance Premiums are based on income. And, like the a state-run insurer, many EU health insurance groups are not run for profit; or if they are the insured are the owners.
So single-payer is the logical alternative to achieve the same result - have higher-income households pay for their own plus low-income household's health insurance; through premiums or taxes doesn't really matter.
It isn't further left, it is just what is achievable within the legal framework of State/Federal laws in the US.
The result is the same.
 
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Delvo said:
Yes, it's a mystery because no explanation suffices. He's against everything most Democrat voters are for. It makes no sense.

I'd say there should be a survey addressing that specific question (why Biden), but it's so utterly bizarre that there isn't even a good way to come up with the right options to give people.
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From a policy perspective it makes no sense.

From a human psychology perspective it does. He was included in polling and had media coverage long before he was even running. He is the favorite of business because he is basically the pro-trump status quo corporatist candidate. Most people are low information voters and he is already known and associated with Obama, who most Democrats really liked. Biden has received something like 3+ times the media coverage of any other candidate. The most important thing to many voters is that Trump loses and the above things resulted in him having some of the best early polling vs Trump which in turn causes more voters to support him, which further boosts his polling.

The problem is that polling isn't always reflective of actual voting and I worry this is setting us up for a repeat of 2016 where just enough people aren't excited about Biden so they either stay home or vote third party and we end up with Trump barely winning again.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
European countries have mandatory enrollment. Obamacare tried that and failed in the courts in Red States.

And European health insurance Premiums are based on income. And, like the a state-run insurer, many EU health insurance groups are not run for profit; or if they are the insured are the owners.
So single-payer is the logical alternative to achieve the same result - have higher-income households pay for their own plus low-income household's health insurance; through premiums or taxes doesn't really matter.
It isn't further left, it is just what is achievable within the legal framework of State/Federal laws in the US.
The result is the same.
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Not just premiums. Cost sharing at the point of service is to the right of Sanders's proposal to not have any.

Plus, you didn't mention the fact that his plan covers more than almost any European country.
 
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- Okay so I have a question. If other countries were having a political discussion and some American ran into and went "Oh really? Well in MY COUNTRY those people would fall on points here, here, and here on OUR political spectrum!" would you care? No? Then why do you think we do?

- Policy is not, never has, and never will be the Dems problems. Most people mostly agree with the Dems on most major issues. They need to tap into the vaguer "connect with the voters thing." No matter what people say a candidate they like will do better then a candidate that checks all their boxes, mainly because aren't stupid and know in their gut that a candidate is never going to actually be able to change that much by himself.
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
Re: Health care and Bernie Sander's plan
European countries have mandatory enrollment.
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While western european countries have mandatory enrollment, there is generally some flexibilty in how that is done.

Britain covers everyone in the public system but allows private coverage for those wanting faster/better care. Switzerland gets everyone to buy private insurance. Sweden has an all-public system but has co-pays.

Sander's system will be more extreme than that. From what I understand he wants a true single payer system (for all medically necessary procedures) with no allowances for private insurance or co-pays. And he wants it to cover dental and vision. That goes further than any country in the western world.
So single-payer is the logical alternative to achieve the same result - have higher-income households pay for their own plus low-income household's health insurance; through premiums or taxes doesn't really matter.
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Single payer (true single payer) sucks.

The only place that it is enacted is in Canada (and that doesn't include dental or vision), and we have horrible problems with wait times and other access issues. The best medical systems in the world are the ones that manage to mix public and private concerns. Sanders' plan won't do that. He will take a horrible medical system (the U.S. system) and replace it with one that is also extremely flawed. Its like a car owner deciding to replace an Edsel with a Pinto... not exactly a great improvement.
 
lobosrul5 said:
What services are uncovered in the UK, France, Germany, Spain, and Italy?. Those countries alone are the majority in population of the EU.
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Various levels of dental, mental health, long term care, and vision coverage. For example, NHS eye exams and eyeglass vouchers are not universally eligible. Right now, Sanders plan is.
 
Segnosaur said:
Sander's system will be more extreme than that. From what I understand he wants a true single payer system (for all medically necessary procedures) with no allowances for private insurance or co-pays. And he wants it to cover dental and vision. That goes further than any country in the western world.

Single payer (true single payer) sucks.
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Because Sanders is the only person in mainstream politics using "Single Payer" as a code word for what the public uses is as a code word for... free.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
European countries have mandatory enrollment. Obamacare tried that and failed in the courts in Red States.
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In reality the Obamacare insurance mandate and tax penalty was approved by the courts. The part that was struck down was making Medicaid Expansion mandatory for the states. Most Red States then proceeded to screw over the poor to prove how much they hated Obama.
 
The_Animus said:
The problem is that polling isn't always reflective of actual voting
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Polls usually predict votes pretty well, but the problem is that people talking about someone's ability to win fail to distinguish between primaries and general elections... or, worse yet, they get the difference exactly backward. Primaries tend to be much more difficult for progressive candidates than general elections would be, but Democrats have often fallen for the opposite claim. So they talk about needing to go left for the primaries and backstep toward republicanism for the general election, which has a long history of leading to general election losses. And right here in this thread we have someone who keeps bringing up Sanders's primary loss last time and current second-place polling as signs that he can't win the general election. And the Biden situation seems like the myth of future "electability" as back-leaked into primaries so they end up getting treated as one and the same anyway.

Lambchops said:
The guy is a Republican with a "D".
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Segnosaur said:
I just think its silly to label a guy a "republican in democrats clothing" just because he isn't playing by the bernie Sanders playbook.
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That's not required for him to end up handing everything over to Republicans anyway. All it takes is that he will sit back and do nothing against them while they carry on republicking the country into the ground. (And then he'll say how proud he was of the "bipartisanship").
 
kellyb said:
I get the sense that Seg considers the electoral results of a very broken system rendering the US an oligarchy legit evidence that we're a rightwing nation.
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I do recognize that the electoral college is a broken system and needs to be fixed/replace.

However, despite the fact that the republicans have managed to win the presidency while not obtaining a majority, they still manage to obtain a significant portion of the electorate. (Trump lost the popular vote to Clinton, but he still got > 46%. That's a big chunk of people.)

Really, polling people issue by issue, we're about as leftwing as the other western nations.

96 percent of Americans—including 96 percent of Republicans—believe money in politics is to blame for the dysfunction of the U.S. political system.
80 percent of Americans think some corporations don’t pay their fair share of taxes.
78 percent think some wealthy people don’t pay their fair share of taxes.
87 percent of Americans say it is critical to preserve Social Security, even if it means increasing Social Security taxes paid by wealthy Americans.
67 percent of Americans support lifting the cap to require higher-income workers to pay Social Security taxes on all of their wages.
74 percent of registered voters—including 71 percent of Republicans—support requiring employers to offer paid parental and medical leave.
78 percent of likely voters favor establishing a national fund that offers all workers 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave.
60 percent of registered voters favor “expanding Medicare to provide health insurance to every American.”
63 percent of registered voters—including 47 percent of Republicans—of Americans favor making four-year public colleges and universities tuition-free.
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I do not deny that there are some issues where polling results show a left-wing slant to American attitudes. There are however a couple of problems:

- The list is far from comprehensive. There are a lot of issues where Americans do skew further to the political right than other countries... for example, abortion (while most Americans think the Alabama law goes to far, more people are still anti-choice than in other countries), or gun control (only 28% of Americans support a handgun ban... in Canada the number is closer to 48%)

- Looking at polls on individual issues can be misleading... for example, people may say they want "free college/free health care" in theory, but may not continue to support it if they are faced with an increase in their personal taxes to pay for it. And many of your issues basically targeted the wealthy (which is fair game... the republican tax cuts were idiotic and should be reversed), but there is no guarantee that all this social spending can be covered by just 'taxing the wealthy'. Its easy to want something when you think someone else will pay for it.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Sander's system will be more extreme than that. From what I understand he wants a true single payer system (for all medically necessary procedures) with no allowances for private insurance or co-pays. And he wants it to cover dental and vision. That goes further than any country in the western world.

Single payer (true single payer) sucks.
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Because Sanders is the only person in mainstream politics using "Single Payer" as a code word for what the public uses is as a code word for... free.
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I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.

I don't think Sanders is using "single payer" as a code word. I think that's actually the system he wants to implement. (i.e. no private insurance and no co-pays.)

From: https://www.vox.com/2019/4/10/18304448/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all
Sanders’s single-payer proposal would create a universal Medicare program that covers all American residents in one government-run health plan. It would bar employers from offering separate plans that compete with this new, government-run option.

Now, OTHER politicians (and the public) may be using 'single payer' to mean 'universal' or 'free', but being single payer is not the only way (or even best way) to obtain universal coverage.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Single payer (true single payer) sucks.
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I agree.
But the GOP has pushed the issue to the point that it is the only politically feasible option.
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I agree that the republicans will be of no help in crafting a solution to American's health care issues. (They've shown themselves to be completely untrustworthy and, well, complete scumbags.)

Not sure why you think that going single payer (true single payer) is the only feasible option though... pushing for a UK style mixed public/private system, or a Swiss private (subsidized) insurance system don't seem to be any less politically feasible, and might give better results in the long run.
 
Trump took things so far to the right that no single payer Bernie type of plan will arise in any Biden or Warren first term. If there are Republicans (40% still vote either Trump of Republican) there is no great change happening. Expanding the current Medicare to people over 50 may happen.
 
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