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Trans Women are not Women

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Does anyone find it peculiar that trans women/sexually dysphoric males compete in sports they know they will win by the fact their bodies are superior in terms of muscle mass etc? Why, for example, doesn't a trans woman/dysphoric male not drive NASCAR or play Ping Pong to make a trans statement? The disingenuous nature of trans-sports is evident, and the current year politics that allows this disingenuous nature is equally degenerate.
 
Ruach4 said:
Does anyone find it peculiar that trans women/sexually dysphoric males compete in sports they know they will win by the fact their bodies are superior in terms of muscle mass etc? Why, for example, doesn't a trans woman/dysphoric male not drive NASCAR or play Ping Pong to make a trans statement? The disingenuous nature of trans-sports is evident, and the current year politics that allows this disingenuous nature is equally degenerate.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2018/11/30/trailblazing-transgender-driver-charlie-martin-put-life-track/

"Charlie Martin is on the cusp of realising her second impossible dream. Having changed gender six years ago, she is now vying to compete at the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

"My transition made me braver on the track, more confident in taking risks, to take those biggest steps," she tells Telegraph Sport. "It is nice to feel I am now on the right track in racing and in life." "
 
Ruach4 said:
Why, for example, doesn't a trans woman/dysphoric male not drive NASCAR or play Ping Pong to make a trans statement?
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How do you know they don't?

This assumes they compete "to make a trans statement" rather than just to try to win, like everyone else.
 
Ruach4 said:
Does anyone find it peculiar that trans women/sexually dysphoric males compete in sports they know they will win by the fact their bodies are superior in terms of muscle mass etc? Why, for example, doesn't a trans woman/dysphoric male not drive NASCAR or play Ping Pong to make a trans statement? The disingenuous nature of trans-sports is evident, and the current year politics that allows this disingenuous nature is equally degenerate.
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ponderingturtle said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2018/11/30/trailblazing-transgender-driver-charlie-martin-put-life-track/
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Well that went down fast.

I suspect that part of it is cases like race car driving don't get as much attention since there's no real problem. Men and women compete against each other on a level playing field already, so transitioning doesn't directly matter to anyone other than the person transitioning. But when someone transitions from male to female and then competes against females at an advantage, that impacts every other competitor. So there's more reason for such cases to make it into the news, and they get heard more often.

Given the often absurd denials of biological advantage that transwomen have in many sports, it's hard not to conclude there's a lot of disingenuousness involved in many cases. But as the linked race car driver case shows, I don't think you can generalize that as universal, even if it is common.
 
I'm thinking of doing the Moss Paul ride next year (too late for this year's ride). They only give you the title when you finish if you're a man, although they don't actually stop women riding any more. I wonder if I should blow their minds and tell them I identify as a man, just for that day, to get the Mosstrooper title?
 
Rolfe said:
I'm thinking of doing the Moss Paul ride next year (too late for this year's ride). They only give you the title when you finish if you're a man, although they don't actually stop women riding any more. I wonder if I should blow their minds and tell them I identify as a man, just for that day, to get the Mosstrooper title?
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Hopefully they won’t fall for the “no true Scotsman” fallacy
 
Venom said:
Were you ever afraid that they would do something?
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Yes completely. What if they start asking me for a date? I didn't ask for that and I certainly don't want people getting into my personal space and causing me anxiety by talking to me, so offensive, almost feels like I'm being attacked.

isissxn said:
STOP WITH YOUR ******* STRAW MEN.

I will not abide any BS parallels drawn between my hesitation at desegregated changing spaces and homophobia toward gay couples. How bloody dare you, sir.

I want to know why you think completely desegregated changing spaces would be a good thing, and who it would benefit. Remember, I already said I'm not talking about trans people. I am talking about regular old men and women all changing in the same space, all ages. Who will this benefit? Why should I want it?

A better question might be, why am i bothering asking? Your answer will be an insulting straw man.

I'm out of here. I have so much better things to do. Everybody change in Central Park, what do I care.
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If everyone gets used to nakedness, then nakedness wouldn't be a trigger for bad behaviour?
 
Matthew Best said:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jun/03/caster-semenya-800m-swiss-supreme-court-ruling-iaaf

"Caster Semenya is once again free to run the 800m without having to take medication – at least for the time being – after the Swiss supreme federal court ordered the IAAF to suspend its testosterone regulations for her with immediate effect."
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IAAF responds:

The IAAF fully respects each individual's personal dignity and supports the social movement to have people accepted in society based on their chosen legal sex and/or gender identity.

However, the IAAF is convinced there are some contexts, sport being one of them, where biology has to trump identity.

The IAAF also believes the right to participate in sport does not translate to a right to self-identify into a competition category or an event, or to insist on inclusion in a preferred event, or to win in a particular event, without regard to the legitimate rules of the sport or the criteria for entry. It is legitimate for all sport in general, and for the IAAF in particular, to create a protected category for females and to base eligibility for this category on biology and not on gender identity. This crucial point was accepted and emphasized by the CAS in its 30 April 2019 decision to uphold the DSD Regulations. To define the category based on something other than biology would be category defeating and would deter many girls around the world from choosing competitive and elite sport after puberty.

The IAAF considers that the DSD Regulations are a necessary, reasonable and proportionate means of protecting fair and meaningful competition in elite female athletics, and the CAS agreed.

The IAAF will seek a swift reversion of the superprovisional order moving forwards so that the DSD Regulations apply to all affected athletes in order (among other things) to avoid serious confusion amongst athletes and event organisers and to protect the integrity of the sport. In due course, the IAAF will defend its DSD Regulations and the CAS Award in the appeal proceedings before the SFT.
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Rolfe said:
I'm thinking of doing the Moss Paul ride next year (too late for this year's ride). They only give you the title when you finish if you're a man, although they don't actually stop women riding any more. I wonder if I should blow their minds and tell them I identify as a man, just for that day, to get the Mosstrooper title?
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Without wanting to derail the thread.

What is the "Moss Paul" ride

Never heard of it and when I google it I think it might have something to do with horses, but can't see any real info
 
I didn't know that the CAS sat below the Swiss constitutional court, I assumed the IOC and the IAAF were effectively supranational entities, and that, dunno, appeals wouldn't have anywhere to go other than human rights courts. (I actually expected to see this case rock up at the ECHR)

However it is indeed the case that athletics rules ultimately answer to the Swiss judges. Hope they're good at their job and don't allow female athletics to be corrupted by biological males.
 
cullennz said:
Without wanting to derail the thread.

What is the "Moss Paul" ride

Never heard of it and when I google it I think it might have something to do with horses, but can't see any real info
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It's one of the borders "common riding" events, based in Hawick, generally considered to be the fastest and most challenging one. These rideouts are mostly based on old customs of boundary riding, and this one celebrates the "mosstroopers", the mounted militiamen who were ready to spring into the saddle and defend their town when necessary. Here's some information. http://www.mosstroopersclub.com/about.html

Some of the rideouts didn't allow women to participate until relatively recently. Women can ride this rideout, but only men are given the title of mosstrooper if they complete it. I was just thinking that a wee bit of temporary trans-identification might be interesting.
 
p0lka said:
If everyone gets used to nakedness, then nakedness wouldn't be a trigger for bad behaviour?
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I'd suggest that 'getting used to nakedness' not be forced on unwilling people by allowing anyone who feels like it to expose their body to members of the opposite sex according to their whim.
 
Francesca R said:
I didn't know that the CAS sat below the Swiss constitutional court, I assumed the IOC and the IAAF were effectively supranational entities, and that, dunno, appeals wouldn't have anywhere to go other than human rights courts. (I actually expected to see this case rock up at the ECHR)

However it is indeed the case that athletics rules ultimately answer to the Swiss judges. Hope they're good at their job and don't allow female athletics to be corrupted by biological males.
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The IAAF seems to be a bit miffed about this and is showing some teeth.

https://www.iaaf.org/news/press-release/iaaf-response-swiss-federal-tribunal-dsd-regu
 
Rolfe said:
It's one of the borders "common riding" events, based in Hawick, generally considered to be the fastest and most challenging one. These rideouts are mostly based on old customs of boundary riding, and this one celebrates the "mosstroopers", the mounted militiamen who were ready to spring into the saddle and defend their town when necessary. Here's some information. http://www.mosstroopersclub.com/about.html

Some of the rideouts didn't allow women to participate until relatively recently. Women can ride this rideout, but only men are given the title of mosstrooper if they complete it. I was just thinking that a wee bit of temporary trans-identification might be interesting.
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:thumbsup:

Cheers
 
GlennB said:
I'd suggest that 'getting used to nakedness' not be forced on unwilling people by allowing anyone who feels like it to expose their body to members of the opposite sex according to their whim.
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There's plenty of other things that some men would like women to just get used to. I mean, y'know, it's all just banter. And a bit of fun. Can't she see the funny side? I mean I thought it was a flippin compliment. Jesus.
 
GlennB said:
I'd suggest that 'getting used to nakedness' not be forced on unwilling people by allowing anyone who feels like it to expose their body to members of the opposite sex according to their whim.
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If only we taught our kids that nakedness was normal,
then all your concerns would just be washed away.
 
GlennB said:
I'd suggest that 'getting used to nakedness' not be forced on unwilling people by allowing anyone who feels like it to expose their body to members of the opposite sex according to their whim.
Click to expand...
If only we taught our kids that nakedness was normal,
then as adults, all your concerns would just be washed away.

EDIT: also, we all expose parts of our bodies to everyone else every day,
give someone a handshake, ooh not only exposing parts of our bodies but actually rubbing them against each other, disgusting.
Can I see your shoulders? disgusting.
you showing your hair? disgusting.

Teaching children things that are not beneficial has a lot to answer for.

It would get rid of body insecurities and all that stuff right off the bat, no one would care about nakedness. In my opinion then no one would be anxious about being naked in front of anyone else, as no one cares.
 
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p0lka said:
If only we taught our kids that nakedness was normal,
then as adults, all your concerns would just be washed away.
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Dandy. But starting, from where we are, by allowing unfettered access to 'spaces that are currently considered protected' to anybody who feels like going in there with their genitals exposed is not the way to achieve your aim.

Start with the kids, slowly and over time, but not with the public changing rooms today, eh?
 
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