Trans Women are not Women

[p0lka]

Ah, my mistake. Why did you snigger?

Snigger is the wrong word, giggled is more apt.

Why? because it was funny.

 

[p0lka]

Ah, my mistake. Why did you snigger?

Meanwhile, in these communal changing areas, many women are complaining about the presence of naked men who aren't supposed to be naked in and around the changing area.

"But after a two-day trial, a jury of seven women and five men found him guilty [of] exposing himself to the woman who noticed him as she brushed her hair in a nearby mirror.

Now Wilson's promising career is in tatters as Crown Prosecution Service sentencing guidelines mean later this month he could face between four months and 26 weeks in jail.

Jurors heard that Wilson, of Houghton, near Carlisle, went to the pool for a daytime swim during the Easter holidays on Wednesday April 1st.

But it was claimed that he deliberately exposed himself to a woman standing directly opposite his cubicle twice in quick succession."

Oh sorry, I didn't notice you editing your post and adding things after I replied.

Your story involved a naked boy in the shower being laughed at by a girl. Seems you made a mistake.

The highlighted is what I'm replying to, you then said you were mistaken.

Edit: though you did fall into my cunning* plan of actually googling UK swimming pools unisex and regurgitating the first things that come up on google.
Congrats.

*stoopid

 

[The Atheist]

You've never met human children, have you?

I do find it funny that several of the people screeching "think about the children!" don't have any, don't know any, and have no idea how they think today.

But they're really good at finding Google articles that agree with their bollocks, just like antivaxers do.

 

[p0lka]

You've never met human children, have you?

I'm a dad of 5 children (not children anymore(my oldest lives in Oz) except the youngest one), plus a grandad of 3, I'm 49(50 in july) so maybe a bit young to be a grandad, but I have experience of bringing up children.
Do you?

 

[d4m10n]

Okay, I can't think about high school anymore lol. Those were some rough times, emotionally.

Thanks for sharing, though, seriously.

My own experience is that one's sense of bodily modesty can be adjusted based on circumstances over time. Growing up as an only child, I was pretty unused to being seen in less than swim trunks. Then I joined swim team and lost a fair bit of personal modesty. Then I attended a military school for several years and lost even more. Then I got married and gradually went back to "normal," as it were.

I'm guessing that if you grow up with topless men and women on the beach, you think little of it. If you grow up with both sexes covered, you think that's how it should be as well.

 

[The Atheist]

I'm guessing that if you grow up with topless men and women on the beach, you think little of it. If you grow up with both sexes covered, you think that's how it should be as well.

That's exactly where I was 20 or so pages ago - if parents didn't put these idiot ideas into their kids, the stupid attitudes wouldn't exist. Religion -> Parents -> Kids -> Peers.

I reiterate the point that at age 5 & 6, Kiwi kids are so used to genderless settings that boys & girls get changed together for swimming in their classrooms.

Every time I go to the beach (a lot) there are little boys & girls stripping off, on the beach, in front of dozens or hundreds of complete strangers.

I should probably take a look next time, because I have to presume other people's kids grow genitals at age 7 or so.

Just don't ask me for pics.

 

[p0lka]

That's exactly where I was 20 or so pages ago - if parents didn't put these idiot ideas into their kids, the stupid attitudes wouldn't exist. Religion -> Parents -> Kids -> Peers.

I reiterate the point that at age 5 & 6, Kiwi kids are so used to genderless settings that boys & girls get changed together for swimming in their classrooms.

Every time I go to the beach (a lot) there are little boys & girls stripping off, on the beach, in front of dozens or hundreds of complete strangers.

I should probably take a look next time, because I have to presume other people's kids grow genitals at age 7 or so.

Just don't ask me for pics.

I agree.
It's like Kids are being taught that nakedness is wrong, even though they don't feel it's wrong until they are taught it is wrong.

I blame religion, but that's best saved for a different thread.

 

[Butter!]

I was commenting of my own adolescence in my remarks, not telling anybody how to parent or speaking from that perspective. To be fair, I was a teenager more recently than some of you. My memory's pretty clear. If your kids are different, fine. Don't see why I'm not qualified to comment, though.

 

[The Atheist]

I was commenting of my own adolescence in my remarks, not telling anybody how to parent or speaking from that perspective. To be fair, I was a teenager more recently than some of you. My memory's pretty clear. If your kids are different, fine. Don't see why I'm not qualified to comment, though.

Of course you can comment.

I don't see you dismissing opinions because the writer is male and disagrees with you, though.

Which is quite a big difference.

 

[Francesca R]

I was just thinking only the other day that what we need really is more males on the internet to tell women/girls what to do, and what to be afraid of, and what it's idiotic to be worried about, so they shouldn't be. Because men can be 100% certain they know what its like to be a woman/girl better than women do, even if several pages back they didn't know what a vagina was.

I think that the more emphatically we are told what is really the case, rather than what we always thought was the case, the better and the more clearly we will realise the errors we have been labouring under.

And the more we are shouted down by a male who hasn't had anything like sex-shaming happen to them in all their hundreds of years, so therefore it never happened to a female either, you're clearly imagining it you silly, and anyway why don't you girls just give some of the same back once in a while it's all just banter and then you won't be victimised any more and that'll level the field just you see (Why can't a girl be more like a boy? Everything'd be so simple! #HenryHiggins), . . . then the more convincing and compelling the message becomes.

Sincere thanks / keep it coming / never gets old / and never comes into style.

(Oops that was a rant again. Well actually it was a piss-take. Never mind. Deduct 5 thread points from my total)

 

[JoeMorgue]

I was just thinking only the other day that what we need really is more males on the internet to tell women/girls what to do, and what to be afraid of, and what it's idiotic to be worried about, so they shouldn't be. Because men can be 100% certain they know what its like to be a woman/girl better than women do, even if several pages back they didn't know what a vagina was.

So how exactly do men who just decide they belong to your special "Women know best club" factor into that? Do you need a penis for it to be "mainsplaing" or are we back to the whole "There's a magical, undetectable 'gender soul'" thing again?

It seems the more we as a culture get obsessed with who is allowed to have a certain opinion about something the more we want who belongs to what group to be as contextless and meaningless as possible which is.... weird.

 

[p0lka]

I was just thinking only the other day that what we need really is more males on the internet to tell women/girls what to do, and what to be afraid of, and what it's idiotic to be worried about, so they shouldn't be. Because men can be 100% certain they know what its like to be a woman/girl better than women do, even if several pages back they didn't know what a vagina was.

I think that the more emphatically we are told what is really the case, rather than what we always thought was the case, the better and the more clearly we will realise the errors we have been labouring under.

And the more we are shouted down by a male who hasn't had anything like sex-shaming happen to them in all their hundreds of years, so therefore it never happened to a female either, you're clearly imagining it you silly, and anyway why don't you girls just give some of the same back once in a while it's all just banter and then you won't be victimised any more and that'll level the field just you see (Why can't a girl be more like a boy? Everything'd be so simple! #HenryHiggins), . . . then the more convincing and compelling the message becomes.

Sincere thanks / keep it coming / never gets old / and never comes into style.

(Oops that was a rant again. Well actually it was a piss-take. Never mind. Deduct 5 thread points from my total)

Nonsense, you need to stop playing the victim.

You are posting and telling other people how you think.
you are a female.
I am a male.

Does that mean I can legitimately now rant about females telling males what to do and how it's so terrible that females are telling males what to think?

no, of course not.

You need to stop doing the victim thing, though I'm a male so maybe you will switch straight back to victim mode again.

Not everything is male/female, sometimes it's just people.

Some of them just want to play the victim and blame everything on everyone else.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

I was just thinking only the other day that what we need really is more males on the internet to tell women/girls what to do, and what to be afraid of, and what it's idiotic to be worried about, so they shouldn't be. Because men can be 100% certain they know what its like to be a woman/girl better than women do, even if several pages back they didn't know what a vagina was.

I think that the more emphatically we are told what is really the case, rather than what we always thought was the case, the better and the more clearly we will realise the errors we have been labouring under.

And the more we are shouted down by a male who hasn't had anything like sex-shaming happen to them in all their hundreds of years, so therefore it never happened to a female either, you're clearly imagining it you silly, and anyway why don't you girls just give some of the same back once in a while it's all just banter and then you won't be victimised any more and that'll level the field just you see (Why can't a girl be more like a boy? Everything'd be so simple! #HenryHiggins), . . . then the more convincing and compelling the message becomes.

Sincere thanks / keep it coming / never gets old / and never comes into style.

(Oops that was a rant again. Well actually it was a piss-take. Never mind. Deduct 5 thread points from my total)

The ironic thing is that Trans Women are actually men speaking in the name of women. If there's anyone who women should feel outraged at, is them. It's like me deciding I'm a woman, putting on a dress and being like "Yeah, preach it sister! Those damn men think they know better than us women what being a woman is like!"

 

[Roboramma]

I recently started dating someone new. Whenever she goes out in the street she wears a hat and a mask (the masks used to be common here when the air was bad). I asked her if she wears the mask because she’s worried about air pollution. Her reply “No, it’s because I’m too good looking.” I laughed. She says, “No, really, if I don’t wear it men stare at me and even walk up to me like this:” she walk up to me to within several inches of my face staring at me “actually I don’t like to go out at night, it’s very dangerous for me.

My only point is that life as a woman is very different from my experience. Things I wouldn’t even consider can be their every day life.

 

[p0lka]

I recently started dating someone new. Whenever she goes out in the street she wears a hat and a mask (the masks used to be common here when the air was bad). I asked her if she wears the mask because she’s worried about air pollution. Her reply “No, it’s because I’m too good looking.” I laughed. She says, “No, really, if I don’t wear it men stare at me and even walk up to me like this:” she walk up to me to within several inches of my face staring at me “actually I don’t like to go out at night, it’s very dangerous for me.

My only point is that life as a woman is very different from my experience. Things I wouldn’t even consider can be their every day life.

Whenever i go out, women stare at me.
I know this because i'm staring at them keeping an eye out for them staring at me.
Also, whenever I go into shops the women behind the counters keep watching me, it's very distracting!

Alternatively, some people just talk twaddle.

 

[Venom]

Whenever i go out, women stare at me.
I know this because i'm staring at them keeping an eye out for them staring at me.
Also, whenever I go into shops the women behind the counters keep watching me, it's very distracting!

Alternatively, some people just talk twaddle.

Were you ever afraid that they would do something?

 

[ponderingturtle]

As far as I know that is not correct. If she was biologically female with no DSD at all (or specifically, if she did not present as 46XY genotype in this case) there would be no requirement by the IAAF for her to take antiandrogens.

Someone can correct me . . . .

Their ruling was that all athletes needed to have testosterone below a certain level. There was nothing about intersex or trans conditions in it.

"That ruling upheld regulations that will require some female track athletes with naturally-elevated testosterone levels to lower those levels with drugs or surgery, if they want to compete in certain women's events on the international stage."

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/31/728400819/i-am-a-woman-track-star-caster-semenya-continues-her-fight-to-compete-as-a-femal

Now is having an unusually high testosterone level enough to count as a DSD all on it's own? I see that as quite likely.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Much of the media is still reporting the Semenya case as though she is biologically female with naturally high levels of testosterone (medically a hyperandrogenised female) and that this is what gets her caught by the IAAF rule.

That seems to be inaccurate, and if that was the case she would fly under the rule and none of this would be happening.

Why do you say that? The rulings are all based on exactly that and with out even more violating her medical privacy how can we know what else she may or may not have?

The only factor cited was testosterone level in the ruling so that is clearly be used as the cut off in this case.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Archie, you are pretty fired up about this issue. May I ask you what is your opinion on the part of it that's troubling me - that is, this new practice of not using terms like "vagina" or talking about menstruation or abortion because it's exclusionary?

I don't know anyone who takes issue with them, if those are what the person is talking about. It is the idea that they are tied solely to women that is the issue.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I mean, I'm going to be completely honest - this sounds dystopian to me.

You cannot expect kids and teenagers to be okay with completely desegregated facilities.

Sure you can. It is like expecting them to be ok with the idea of same sex relationships or that people with different skin color can go to their school. It is all about what they are used to and expect.

This is all cultural so pushing for a change in the culture is exactly what this is about.