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Trans Women are not Women

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GlennB said:
Oh great. It becomes a 'shaming' battle and the war goes on. Good plan :rolleyes:
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Your post i was replying to seemed to be about 'period shaming' and you were indicating it was a bad thing?
I agree.

But, the idea that the victims of 'period shaming' can do it back and not be victims anymore is a good thing in my opinion, why don't you think it is?

If both sides of a war are equal to use your own analogy, then there's no advantage for one side to snigger, giggle and take the piss to the other side, when the other side can do it back.
 
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p0lka said:
Your post i was replying to seemed to be about 'period shaming' and you were indicating it was a bad thing?
I agree.

The idea that the victims of 'period shaming' can do it back and not be victims anymore is a good thing in my opinion, why don't you think it is?

If both sides of a war are equal to use your own analogy, then there's no advantage for one side to snigger, giggle and take the piss to the other side, when the other side can do it back.
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A victim retaliating in kind doesn't erase the original victimization. It just pays the victimization forward.
 
theprestige said:
A victim retaliating in kind doesn't erase the original victimization. It just pays the victimization forward.
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That's quite a sweeping statement, context matters.

boy: haha, you're having periods..you're having periods.

girl: haha, you have no pubes..you have no pubes.

girl and boy: let's never mention this again.
 
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isissxn said:
I mean, I'm going to be completely honest - this sounds dystopian to me.

You cannot expect kids and teenagers to be okay with completely desegregated facilities. I'm not talking about trans kids in there, I'm talking about the kind of wild west environment you're describing. Maybe you're joking, but it truly sounds pants-on-head insane to me.

Is this really the solution people believe we should be reaching toward? Completely unisex multi-stall bathrooms, for everyone, including schoolchildren? I thought I was a bit of a radical, but y'all are making me feel like my parents.

Oh, but it's just a failure of parenting, I forgot. It has nothing to do with the fact that being a naked teenager is hard enough in front of your OWN gender (and those who identify with it, lest anyone somehow still think I am talking about trans people here, because I AM NOT).

I am so glad I don't have kids. The world is completely crazy now. It really is.
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re: the highlighted.. That isn't a fact, being ashamed of nakedness is a cultural thing. There are other places in the world where nakedness is a non issue.

isissxn said:
You cannot expect kids and teenagers to be okay with completely desegregated facilities
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Why not?
As I have said before, our swimming pool around 1987ish was completely desegregated,
toilets, changing rooms, etc. That was 30 odd years ago.

The last swimming pool I went to, about 6 months ago didn't have male/female changing rooms, it just had changing rooms.

EDIT:
Actually that reminds me of when I took my daughter swimming a few years ago, she was about 9 and she found it hilarious when a boy took his trunks off and was dancing around under the showers with his bits bouncing around, we had a good laugh about that.

No moral outrage, no shock, we just found it funny.
 
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GlennB said:
Which is used one person at a time, ffs. School bathrooms, typically, are not; so no, it isn't a parenting issue at all.
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Heck, bathrooms must have changed a lot since I was a kid.

Our toilets had doors.

Francesca R said:
Dunno how old you are but schoolgirls evidently understand the world much better than you in this domain.

24-carat male privilege.
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What a nonsensical response.

Are you a teenage girl? Or the parent of one?

I am the father of a teenage girl, and she happens to be one who is very close to this issue, having both a MtF and a FtM as very close friends, both of whom are frequent lodgers at our house.

I am 100% certain I understand the world of teenage girls and transgender people in 2019 far better than someone who hasn't been a teenager for well over a decade.

24-carat female womansplaining, more like.
 
The Atheist said:
Heck, bathrooms must have changed a lot since I was a kid.

Our toilets had doors.
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Exactly. A home bathroom has all the facilities behind a lockable door. A public one does not - the communal area is where the sexes will interact. Basically I have no idea what your argument is supposed to be.
 
Maybe it is a new thing, but in my entire childhood I never witnessed anything which could be remotely categorised as period shaming from me or my friends.

I have a feeling this might be a insecurity thing

I never saw anyone going on about fellow dudes pubic here either


Maybe I just live in a different environment
 
p0lka said:
re: the highlighted.. That isn't a fact, being ashamed of nakedness is a cultural thing. There are other places in the world where nakedness is a non issue.


Why not?
As I have said before, our swimming pool around 1987ish was completely desegregated,
toilets, changing rooms, etc. That was 30 odd years ago.

The last swimming pool I went to, about 6 months ago didn't have male/female changing rooms, it just had changing rooms.

EDIT:
Actually that reminds me of when I took my daughter swimming a few years ago, she was about 9 and she found it hilarious when a boy took his trunks off and was dancing around under the showers with his bits bouncing around, we had a good laugh about that.
c
No moral outrage, no shock, we just found it funny.
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Call me Mr uber skepty, but I doubt this is true either
 
p0lka said:
unisex changing rooms in UK swimming pools aren't uncommon, don't know why you are sceptical? Google it.
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Unisex changing rooms are not uncommon (for example):

“Single sex changing rooms are available at Bath Sports and Leisure Centre.

“In addition, we provide a large ‘changing village’. This is a gender neutral area where costumes are worn and privacy is provided via individual cubicles for changing.

“It is increasingly popular in leisure centres across the country as it’s easier for parents with children of the opposite sex and enables cleaners of either sex to maintain cleanliness during operational hours.

“In village change areas, customers are required to keep covered when in communal areas. There is no communal nudity in these areas."

And there have been many complaints about these shared areas.

Your story involved a naked boy in the shower being laughed at by a girl. Seems you made a mistake.
 
p0lka said:
re: the highlighted.. That isn't a fact, being ashamed of nakedness is a cultural thing. There are other places in the world where nakedness is a non issue.


Why not?
As I have said before, our swimming pool around 1987ish was completely desegregated,
toilets, changing rooms, etc. That was 30 odd years ago.

The last swimming pool I went to, about 6 months ago didn't have male/female changing rooms, it just had changing rooms.

EDIT:
Actually that reminds me of when I took my daughter swimming a few years ago, she was about 9 and she found it hilarious when a boy took his trunks off and was dancing around under the showers with his bits bouncing around, we had a good laugh about that.

No moral outrage, no shock, we just found it funny.
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We were talking about teenagers. It's really hard to be a teenager. If you don't remember, well, good for you. I'll never forget.

Let's just leave it at "I think your idea is completely mental, but it's unlikely to affect me, so I'm not going to argue about it."

As an afterthought, some cultural stigmas are good - I'm glad most people take care of their body odor, for instance.
 
cullennz said:
Maybe it is a new thing, but in my entire childhood I never witnessed anything which could be remotely categorised as period shaming from me or my friends.

I have a feeling this might be a insecurity thing

I never saw anyone going on about fellow dudes pubic here either


Maybe I just live in a different environment
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I believe it is probably environment-dependent and situation-dependent. I would not say it was a constant, common thing when I was in school. However, it did happen. It happened to me once. I bled through my khakis (stupid uniform pants) once in sixth grade, and I kid you not, I still occasionally cringe, like full-body cringe, remembering it. The memory often strikes me when I'm trying to fall asleep at night. (That's when different embarrassing and shameful memories tend to line up in a conga line and pester me.)

Gross personal anecdote time: Basically, I stood up, and there was blood all over my ass. I was sitting in the front row too. Both girls and boys were instantly howling. There was no gender difference in the mockery I received, no sympathy from the girls. I'll grant that. They called me Carrie for years. They said I **** myself. One boy said he could smell blood every time he saw me for weeks. Teacher shut them up right then, of course, but the real teasing happened outside the classroom. I told my mom I wasn't going to school anymore, and she just rolled her eyes and told me to grow up.

Teenagers and preteens in groups are little monstrous *****, and they absolutely will make someone's life hell over a period accident. However, in my case, I'm sad to report that the girls were just as cruel.


EDIT: What I've always wondered is, would the girls have so readily jumped on board if there hadn't been boys around to look cool in front of? Throwing other women under the bus to chum up to men is an all-too-common phenomenon amongst women. (I imagine it can go the other way, as well - men ******** on other men to make themselves look better to women they want to impress.)
 
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Just for the record, a person saying, "It's okay for young women to feel uncomfortable changing in front of young men" is NOT anywhere near the same thing as saying, "Young men are gross and dangerous and bad." That's what some people seem to be hearing. Furthermore, despite the claims of old heads looking back in this thread, I believe there are thousands and thousands of young men who feel the exact same discomfort about changing in front of the young ladies. It's not misandry, it's not religious, it's not an insult.

Once again, please bear in mind that I am not talking about and did not mention trans people. I'm talking about full desegregation.
 
isissxn said:
...despite the claims of old heads looking back in this thread, I believe there are thousands and thousands of young men who feel the exact same discomfort about changing in front of the young ladies. It's not misandry, it's not religious, it's not an insult.
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It's not unusual to feel uncomfortable changing in front of people of the same sex as well. Hence the need for private cubicles.
 
d4m10n said:
It's not unusual to feel uncomfortable changing in front of people of the same sex as well. Hence the need for private cubicles.
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No disagreement there! High school gym class would have just been another class if we'd had those. I'm all for it.

Changing in front of girls was bad. Changing in front of boys and girls would have been worse. As an adult, I really don't care (though I understand why some people do, and I do not judge them). But as a teenager, I would have burned down the school before I changed in a blended environment. As it was, I twice received demerits for refusing to change for gym class in the female locker room. I just told the teacher I refused. Instead of marching in to find out what the hell was going on in there, she simply gave me some demerits. Fine by me. Ooooh, I got a check-minus in gym. That's really going to destroy my 4.2 GPA.

Okay, I can't think about high school anymore lol. Those were some rough times, emotionally.
 
GlennB said:
Unisex changing rooms are not uncommon (for example):

“Single sex changing rooms are available at Bath Sports and Leisure Centre.

“In addition, we provide a large ‘changing village’. This is a gender neutral area where costumes are worn and privacy is provided via individual cubicles for changing.

“It is increasingly popular in leisure centres across the country as it’s easier for parents with children of the opposite sex and enables cleaners of either sex to maintain cleanliness during operational hours.

“In village change areas, customers are required to keep covered when in communal areas. There is no communal nudity in these areas."

And there have been many complaints about these shared areas.

Your story involved a naked boy in the shower being laughed at by a girl. Seems you made a mistake.
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No, my story involved me standing there with a towel as my daughter (in her swimming costume) was showering under the communal showers after the swimming session ended, when a boy (a bit younger than her, at a guess) took his trunks off.

My daughter and I looked at each other, sniggered then walked off.
 
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p0lka said:
No, my story involved me standing there with a towel as my daughter (in her swimming costume) was showering under the communal showers after the swimming session ended, when a boy (a bit younger than her, at a guess) took his trunks off.

My daughter and I looked at each other, sniggered then walked off.
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Ah, my mistake. Why did you snigger?

Meanwhile, in these communal changing areas, many women are complaining about the presence of naked men who aren't supposed to be naked in and around the changing area.

"But after a two-day trial, a jury of seven women and five men found him guilty [of] exposing himself to the woman who noticed him as she brushed her hair in a nearby mirror.

Now Wilson's promising career is in tatters as Crown Prosecution Service sentencing guidelines mean later this month he could face between four months and 26 weeks in jail.

Jurors heard that Wilson, of Houghton, near Carlisle, went to the pool for a daytime swim during the Easter holidays on Wednesday April 1st.

But it was claimed that he deliberately exposed himself to a woman standing directly opposite his cubicle twice in quick succession."
 
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