Mueller Investigation pt 6

[I Am The Scum]

He would be impeached and convicted.

You're funny.

Horse hockey. There's not a person in the developed world that isn't intellectually and emotionally aware of what Trump has done.

You're almost as funny.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I think we're all getting rather tired of explaining over and over the difference between getting a blumpkin from the chubby Jewish chick who brings you the mail...

And I’m getting rather tired of explaining over and over that lying about said “blumpkin” to a judge while under oath is the crime, not the “blumpkin”.

Unless you want to plead “process crime”, which would put you in the company of some pretty unsavory characters.

 

[JoeMorgue]

And I’m getting rather tired of explaining over and over that lying about said “blumpkin” to a judge while under oath is the crime, not the “blumpkin”.

Unless you want to plead “process crime”, which would put you in the company of some pretty unsavory characters.

Oh my arm is not long enough for the jerk off motion that is in my soul right now.

Clinton's entire impeachment was a character assassination, forcing the man to stand in front of the country and confess to things that were none of our business because the Republicans knew it would work their base of sad old people who haven't had sex since V-Day into a frenzy. It's why the went ahead with an impeachment that had no chance of conviction, it was never about that. It's why the next election was just a bunch of "Durrrr... durrr... family values..." nonsense.

If you simply demand it to maintain the "Fair and Balanced Whataboutism" scales, it was wrong the Clinton lied. He lied about something that was none of our business to ask about in the first place.

The whole idea that wasting more time and money then we did on the 9/11 Commission to determine if President Teen Sex Romp Comedy preferred a Rusty Trombone or a Cleveland Steamer was somehow vindicated after the fact by Clinton lying about is insane troll logic.

 

[JoeMorgue]

You're almost as funny.

I stand behind it. There's (sadly) plenty of people who either don't care or have rationalized it away for whatever reason, but no there isn't some statistically significant percent of the population out there who are going to change their opinion when the very idea that Trump has done things considered wrong is presented to them for the 457th time.

 

[applecorped]

President Pence!



There might be an impeachment but there won't be a succesful vote to convict and remove.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

This coming from an obvious Uber Alt Left Automaton, who has ( probably through no fault of his own) indulged in far too much Kool-Aid, and being transfixed upon the letters CNN and/ or MSLSD.... only to find incessant Trump bashing with not a shred of fact to back their collective Vitriolic Rhetoric up....but then what can one expect from Cable news outlets who have no Journalistic integrity no ethics, and have no problem bashing the 1st Amendment evidenced by their Borg like abuse of it.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I kind of enjoy actors who chew the scenery.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

...it was wrong the Clinton lied.

On this we agree. Wrong. And criminal.

He lied about something that was none of our business to ask about in the first place.

On this we disagree. Paula Jones was entitled to her day in court, and the questions were deemed relevant.

I am in no way equating this with Trump’s misdeeds. Trump is an order of magnitude - or several - worse than any president in my lifetime.

I just feel compelled to correct any mischaracterization and rationalization of the crime Bill Clinton actually committed.

 

[Aridas]

He would be impeached and convicted.

Given the actual behavior of the Senate Republicans? I have no faith in that at all.

But hearings with press coverage of the details leading up to the 2020 election can.

A bit like the hearings about whether Trump was violating the law with his instructions to refuse to hand over anything to Congress? Apparently, that was quite the show of every expert on all sides of things agreeing that Trump was completely wrong to do so. Press coverage? Virtually nil.

 

[Bob001]

....
Horse hockey. There's not a person in the developed world that isn't intellectually and emotionally aware of what Trump has done. There Venn Diagram for "Aware of what Trump has Done" is a circle.

Everybody knows what Trump has done. Reciting the list again is a waste of time.
....

That's just not true. In the compartmentalized media environment, it's easy for people to hear only what they want to hear. At Tea Party Rep. Amash's town meeting where he explained to his constituents why he supported impeachment, people were interviewed who said that it was the first time they had heard anything about Trump's misconduct. Fox News, talk radio, blogs etc., the Attorney General and Trump himself were telling them that the Mueller report had cleared him completely. And these were people who were interested enough in public affairs to actually go to a town meeting.

It would have enormous impact if Mueller was summoned to Congress for televised hearings, and was simply asked to read aloud his own summaries of his report. Reading the 18 pages would probably take about half-an-hour, and it would be seen and heard and resonate across the political and media spectrums.

 

[Segnosaur]

It would have enormous impact if Mueller was summoned to Congress for televised hearings, and was simply asked to read aloud his own summaries of his report. Reading the 18 pages would probably take about half-an-hour...

Minor point.... we're talking Trump here.

First of all, its doubtful that he'd be able to read or pronounce half the words in the report.

Secondly, he'd probably end up ad-libbing half of it and going off on tangents. So even if he could read the report, it would probably take hours.

It would severely cut into the time he needs to tweet and play golf.

 

[Lurch]

If that's true then we've already lost and there's no point in even trying.

That sounds more like a "Planting the seeds for an excuse for a future loss" then anything else though.



Horse hockey. There's not a person in the developed world that isn't intellectually and emotionally aware of what Trump has done. There Venn Diagram for "Aware of what Trump has Done" is a circle.

Everybody knows what Trump has done. Reciting the list again is a waste of time.

What matters is the amount of people who don't care, have rationalized it away, see it as a net positive, or see it as acceptable losses in the war to keep the Libruls out of power.

I want to grab every Democrat by the cuff of the shirt and scream in their face "PROVING TRUMP WRONG DOESN'T WORK. TRY SOMETHING ELSE."

This goddamn pipe dream the Democrats have where if they just keep listing everything Trump has done wrong over and over is going to suddenly one day just magically work is starting to border on the definition of insane.

There is no, none, zero, zilch, nada, zip, chance that pointing out "Oh here's one more thing he did wrong" is going to matter.

The Trump base is fed the bilge coming out of right wing media. Many have no idea what the Mueller Report really states. (A Trumper interviewed after Justin Amash's town hall admitted to having been surprised by what she heard there.) Public hearings will at least partly make up for their lack of having read the Report for themselves. They cannot be completely isolated from the wall-to-wall TV coverage of Congressional hearings featuring under-oath testimony by witnesses and insiders.

It's that TV coverage which would break the dam, as it did back in Nixon's time. No one reads, but they all watch screens.

 

[Lurch]

According to Pelosi, that is exactly what Trump wants, selling a failed impeachment attempt as vindication that he did not actually commit any crimes to base that doesn't understand the difference.

But does tRump *really* desire to go down this impeachment path? No matter how it turns out, it's a stain on one's legacy. His narcissism must surely balk at such a prospect.

As Donny Deutch laid out on today's Morning Joe, the Dems should re-brand the impeachment process as the Trump Criminal Investigation. Forcing tRump to repeatedly say, "I'm not a criminal!" would be seen as an echo of Nixon's "I am not a crook!"

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If that's true then we've already lost and there's no point in even trying.

We are clearly defining his supporters differently. The 'write-offs' I'm talking about are somewhere between 30-40% of the voters. We have not already lost.

That sounds more like a "Planting the seeds for an excuse for a future loss" then anything else though.

I have no idea what seeds you are talking about here. Are you suggesting the Democrats need some story to explain their losses? Really, you think Trump is normal now, everyone making excuses?

Horse hockey. There's not a person in the developed world that isn't intellectually and emotionally aware of what Trump has done. There Venn Diagram for "Aware of what Trump has Done" is a circle.

Everybody knows what Trump has done. Reciting the list again is a waste of time.

What matters is the amount of people who don't care, have rationalized it away, see it as a net positive, or see it as acceptable losses in the war to keep the Libruls out of power.

I want to grab every Democrat by the cuff of the shirt and scream in their face "PROVING TRUMP WRONG DOESN'T WORK. TRY SOMETHING ELSE."

This goddamn pipe dream the Democrats have where if they just keep listing everything Trump has done wrong over and over is going to suddenly one day just magically work is starting to border on the definition of insane.

There is no, none, zero, zilch, nada, zip, chance that pointing out "Oh here's one more thing he did wrong" is going to matter.

You have no concept of controlling the narrative then?

The point is not to make a list and check it twice. The point is to give the media something besides Trump TV to occupy their time. The point is to change the narrative from "Trump did something but it wasn't a big deal" to, "well now that you put it that way." The point is to counter the Mueller didn't find crimes narrative. People don't listen to details, they look at headlines. We need to make headlines that counter the constant messaging Trump minions are out their promoting.

 

[Upchurch]

But does tRump *really* desire to go down this impeachment path? No matter how it turns out, it's a stain on one's legacy. His narcissism must surely balk at such a prospect.

He just had a special FBI investigation conclude that he committed punishable crimes and he's reframing it as a moral (and PR) win amongst his base. Are you kidding me? He'll turn a failed impeachment attempt into case-closed proof that he's 100% innocent of anything ever. And his base will believe every bit of it.

You want evidence? Look at what the people in this thread who haven't bothered to read the Mueller report are saying. Ignorance makes reality malleable.

As Donny Deutch laid out on today's Morning Joe, the Dems should re-brand the impeachment process as the Trump Criminal Investigation. Forcing tRump to repeatedly say, "I'm not a criminal!" would be seen as an echo of Nixon's "I am not a crook!"

That is a great idea. The Democrats do not have a media machine like Fox News to guide the spin.

 

[I Am The Scum]

He'll turn a failed impeachment attempt into case-closed proof that he's 100% innocent of anything ever. And his base will believe every bit of it.

That's the exact same thing that would happen with a successful impeachment. Getting his base to turn on him is a losing strategy. That's never been the point.

 

[Bob001]

Minor point.... we're talking Trump here.

First of all, its doubtful that he'd be able to read or pronounce half the words in the report.

Secondly, he'd probably end up ad-libbing half of it and going off on tangents. So even if he could read the report, it would probably take hours.
...

No, no, I said Mueller should be asked to read the summaries of his report at televised hearings.

 

[Stacyhs]

You need a super-majority (67 people) to convict a President in the Senate in an impeachment.

The Republicans went into their impeachment of President with a 55-45 power balance in the Senate. They would have needed a minimum of 12 Democratic Senators to jump the aisle to convict Clinton. They didn't even get that, with 5 and 10 Republican senators voting against the two articles.

Right now the Republicans have 53 seats to the Democrat's 47 (well if you want to split the hair 45 Democrats and 2 Independents who vote Democrat). A Trump conviction would require the Democrats to find 20 Republicans to vote to impeach a sitting Republican President.

12 people crossing the aisle in the political environment of 1999 would have been a miracle. 20 people crossing the aisle in the political environment of 2019 is a pipe dream.

Exactly. This is why I'm conflicted as to whether impeaching Trump is a good idea or not. Do I think there is more than adequate grounds for impeachment? Absolutely. But would it be a good idea knowing that the Senate would never convict him? Probably not. Pelosi has shown herself to be a savvy Speaker of the House. At this point, I'm more inclined to trust her instincts on this. Frankly, I'm pinning my hopes on the state investigations of Trump as I truly believe he has committed serious financial crimes.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Exactly. This is why I'm conflicted as to whether impeaching Trump is a good idea or not. Do I think there is more than adequate grounds for impeachment? Absolutely. But would it be a good idea knowing that the Senate would never convict him? Probably not. Pelosi has shown herself to be a savvy Speaker of the House. At this point, I'm more inclined to trust her instincts on this. Frankly, I'm pinning my hopes on the state investigations of Trump as I truly believe he has committed serious financial crimes.

The difference is, at least my gut is telling me, is that the Republicans never really intended to convict Clinton. The Republicans are many, many kinds of stupid but until Trump "politically stupid" was almost never one of them. I don't buy they couldn't smell which way that wind was blowing.

They wanted to embarrass him; paint him as a lecherous, dirty, and vaguely predatory man by putting him in a situation where he had to talk about his sexual exploits in public in the literal most boring time of the last 40 years (seriously the late 90s were duuuuuulllll) and run the next election on a "Family Values" platform. Sadly it was brilliant politically. The Conservative base is mostly old people who think sex with the lights on is too risque and the Dems were never gonna fight dirty when the vague-usation on the table was sexual harassment. And it worked to a large degree.

But Trump has no shame. If an impeachment against him wouldn't lead to a conviction what would be the point? Yet even more vague and undefined political damage to set him up for a knock out blow that's perpetually coming any day now?

 

[JoeMorgue]

//Doublepost//

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

According to Pelosi, that is exactly what Trump wants, selling a failed impeachment attempt as vindication that he did not actually commit any crimes to base that doesn't understand the difference.

There's a point to this. But Trump is and will do that anyway claiming Mueller cleared him when Mueller didn't. And what push back do the Democrats have unless they can get the truth out about what the Mueller report actually says. Congressional hearings will get wide press coverage. Pelosi and Schumer in a 30 sec press conference clip blinks out of people's minds like an ember over a fire.

People need to stop looking at this like a successful impeachment and instead look at it like a successful campaign to expose the truth.