• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Trans Women are not Women

Status
Not open for further replies.
One of the thought experiments that has occurred to me occasionally when discussing transgender issues is to imagine that I, a regular (dare I say cisgender), heterosexual, male, am actually a female, homosexual, transvestite.
"I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body" is a chortling refrain I have heard coming from, what, completely ordinary/unremarkable men for decades. "Yeah me too!" comes the nodded agreement from others.

Never a truer autogynaephilic word spoken in jest, is what I have long thought.
 
"I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body" is a chortling refrain I have heard coming from, what, completely ordinary/unremarkable men for decades. "Yeah me too!" comes the nodded agreement from others.

Never a truer autogynaephilic word spoken in jest, is what I have long thought.


Well, exactly. It's really a lot commoner than we realise, from the Lumberjack Song down.

I'm perfectly prepared to believe that there are other possible causes of trans identity in men beyond HSTS and AGP, although Blanchard (now retired for nearly ten years) still doesn't recognise any. For example, I've wondered for some time if the disproportionately high prevalence of ex-military types might be some manifestation of PTSD. If you're freaked out with killing and maiming, what better way to dissociate yourself from all that than becoming a woman? But I'm not a sexologist so I don't know.

However simply looking around at what's going on and the rhetoric accompanying the efforts to take over women's spaces and women's identity, full of male entitlement and with no consideration - in face with contempt - for women's feelings, makes it pretty clear where most of these guys are coming from. The militant demands made on everybody else to conform to their delusions, and the petulant cries of "this is literal violence!" against anyone who transgresses their playbook, are a dead giveaway.
 
Men need to stop getting offended when women are frank about what they've always known and how they've always behaved.

Did someone elect you to speak for women?

What I notice is that people exposing the views shared in your article are often the first to shout down women if their views differ. And unfortunately the majority of women, who do not feel this way assent as loud as the "I pee myself if I think a penis is nearby" crowd.

For the record my ego is small enough I can say I know I don't speak for all men. I mean, I'm right, but not all men feel that way.
 
If certain terminology is offensive, you find some other way of expressing what you mean, if you have to get that specific point across.

Again, I don't think it's offensive, and given that everything is offensive to somebody, I usually don't care if it is. You don't need to go out of your way to be offensive, but if you offend anyway, so what?
 
I'm perfectly prepared to believe that there are other possible causes of trans identity in men beyond HSTS and AGP
I would make no claim about that other than autogynaephilia at some level of affectation should without shadow of doubt push its subject towards trans identification.

More than that, such a trans identifier is, I would think, most likely to remain attracted to mostly female, and, "I would think" be most likely to experience anxiety about not being able to be what they most want to be with the result being a level of hatred towards women and particularly to lesbians who are not interested in them.

None of this is to suggest rates of participation or proportions of this type of person in any group. You don't need more than a minority to make a noise about stuff, usually.

ETA it should be a significant red flag, to say the least, to observe hatred of women in someone self IDing as a trans woman . . . .
 
Last edited:
The most important thing the trans lobby want us to forget is that this is a mental illness. OK the "I identify as an Apache attack helicopter" thing invites ridicule, but the "I'm Napoleon" thing isn't all that far off the mark.

I'm all for removing the stigma from mental illness. People with a mental illness should be treated with the best possible care aimed at minimising the distress caused by their condition and enabling them to live the happiest and most productive lives possible. But in no other situation does mental health care involve going along with the delusions of the delusional. If you're a mental health-care professional you know that you never agree with the patient that he is in fact Napoleon, and you never take any action that might suggest you really believe that. Only in this one situation are we being forced, not just to agree with him that he's Napoleon but to believe in our own hearts that he's Napoleon.

Another thing being played down is the seriousness of medical and surgical transition. Wear what you like, present as you like, but when you start interfering with the natural endocrine balance of your body and having serious surgery done on a healthy body, surgery with a fairly high risk of unpleasant complications, this isn't something to be undertaken lightly, let alone celebrated as "brave and stunning". This goes double for children and young people, embarking on a life of permanent medicalisation before their brains are mature enough to make a truly informed decision, and indeed in many cases when the treatment itself (puberty blockers) actually prevents the brain maturation that would allow a more considered decision.

Reports of unwanted consequences of sex-reassignment surgery are all over the place. Hair growing inside the artificial vagina created for an adult man resulting in a recommendation to have a speculum examination and hairball removal every six months or so. A faecal smell from the artificial vagina created for a puberty-blocked eunuch, using colon tissue to achieve the penetrative length that can't be achieved from the material available from an infantile penis and scrotum. Complete absence of the ability to feel sexual arousal in children who have been put on puberty blockers and then progressed to cross-sex hormones. Inability to feel sexual arousal in adult male transwomen because the surgeon didn't bother to construct a clitoral analogue. "Phantom erection" experienced when men who have had their penis amputated are sexually aroused. Chronic post-mastectomy breast pain in transmen (this is apparently also distressingly common among women who have had mastectomies for cancer so it's not as if it couldn't be predicted). Failed attempts at constructing an artificial penis leading to the organ becoming necrotic and dropping off, leaving horrific graft donor-site scars on the arm and nothing to show for it. (Indeed these scars are horrific even if the surgery is successful.)

Frighteningly increased risks of heart disease, stroke, high blood pressure, osteroporosis and cancer in people taking synthetic hormones. In particular, women who were put on puberty blockers for as little as two or three years for precocious puberty, then allowed to have a normal female puberty, are currently reporting all sorts of disabling consequences in later life, particularly in relation to bone density. The "transkids" cohort, some of whom have been on puberty blockers much longer than that, and practically all of whom have then not gone through normal puberty for their sex but progressed straight to cross-sex hormones, haven't really progressed far enough to show up in the statistics yet.

Then there are the social and psychological consequences. Very few transwomen and no transmen end up with bodies that can pass as the opposite sex in intimate situations. If the trans person deeply desires a normal "heterosexual" relationship with their partner treating them as and even believing they are the opposite sex, they are almost certainly doomed to disappointment. There's a lot of loneliness and social isolation among older trans people. Longer term studies that have followed patients beyond the first few years of euphoria where they're happy that they've got what they want, or are at least still convincing themselves that they're happy that they've got what they want, have shown that on average, transition does not increase the sum total of human happiness and may actually decrease it. Suicide incidence among fully transitioned people is massively higher than the population as a whole.

It's certainly true that for some people, whose body dysphoria is very severe and unremitting, transition is nevertheless the best treatment. Miranda Yardley, who cheerfully declares "what about me, I had my dick cut off!" has no regrets, saying it helped a lot. So it would be wrong to condemn transition as something that should never happen.

But all this celebration of the "brave and stunning" trans person, the coming-out parties, the trans penguins that tell children that they can be whichever sex they please and the doctor can fix it later if they choose the one they weren't born as (and the all-too-common subtext that it's interesting and special to be trans rather than a boring cishet kid who won't get any parties or special treatment), is doing nobody any favours. The mantra that any attempt to manage a child's gender non-conforming behaviour, or an adult's gender dysphoria, to avoid medication and/or surgery, to help the patient become comfortable in his or her own body, is "conversion therapy" and transphobic and must be condemned, is one of the most harmful things to have come out of this propaganda machine.

This is going to burn itself out, just as the recovered memories craze burned itself out, but it's going to leave a lot of unnecessarily damaged people behind it.
 
I would make no claim about that other than autogynaephilia at some level of affectation should without shadow of doubt push its subject towards trans identification.

More than that, such a trans identifier is, I would think, most likely to remain attracted to mostly female, and, "I would think" be most likely to experience anxiety about not being able to be what they most want to be with the result being a level of hatred towards women and particularly to lesbians who are not interested in them.

None of this is to suggest rates of participation or proportions of this type of person in any group. You don't need more than a minority to make a noise about stuff, usually.

ETA it should be a significant red flag, to say the least, to observe hatred of women in someone self IDing as a trans woman . . . .


Yes, I think that's a very fair summary.
 
. . . And, I should have added, since I go out on something of a limb to claim that autogynaephilia is actually fairly mainstream, mostly under the radar, and mostly not what I would call mental illness beause it is mostly not something that need ever cause any manifestation of illness . . . . I should also have added that I am not surprised to witness massive opposition/challenge to the above from trans-women and from plenty of men in general.


(Not that I am trying to create a pass to dismiss opposition, looks a bit like I am though methinks)
 
Last edited:
I think that's a point Blanchard has made quite often, which is often being misrepresented. Autogynaephilia is a paraphilia, a kink, a fetish, what used to be called a perversion, that is an "erotic target error". As such it's not a mental illness, and not necessarily anything to be ashamed of (hence the terminology changes, including changing "perversion" to "paraphilia"). However when it progresses to the point that the patient desires to transform their body into a woman's by medical or surgical means, or actually believes that he is a woman, then it's a mental illness. (Blanchard was actually one of the psychologists on the panel when the definitions of this aspect of mental illness were codified in the USA.)
 
Last edited:
I think "paraphilia" has adverse connotations as well (extreme, abnormal etc . . . I would hardly call hetero male attraction to lesbianism uncommon, not that the representation commercially supplied is authentic of course, but I do consider it to be a manifestation of autogynaephilia). But anyway it is an erotic desire and those can be immensely enjoyable to those they affect.

It doesn't necessarily have to progress to a subject believing himself to be a woman in order to be a public threat to women. It could be all about the anger of not being able to be involved in something one desperately desires (such as lesbian sex, or just girl talk or whatever inclusion into femaleness is the thing)
 
Last edited:
That's the trouble with labels. One becomes seen as derogatory, so they find another one to describe the thing that's being described, then that becomes seen as derogatory in its turn, and so on ad infinitum.
 
"I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body" is a chortling refrain I have heard coming from, what, completely ordinary/unremarkable men for decades. "Yeah me too!" comes the nodded agreement from others.

Never a truer autogynaephilic word spoken in jest, is what I have long thought.

Well, exactly. It's really a lot commoner than we realise, from the Lumberjack Song down.

I'm probably reading this wrong, but it sounds like you're saying that when I joke about being a lesbian trapped in a man's body, I'm also making a sincere expression of my autogynephilia. And that my appreciation of the Lumberjack Song is in part an appreciation for its autogynephilic subtext, which I relate to.

To which I relate.
 
I certainly didn't intend to imply that at all. (I just saw a statistic that 3% of the male population experiences autogynaephilia to some extent or another.)
 
The most important thing the trans lobby want us to forget is that this is a mental illness.


Too bad the overwhelming majority of the American and International medical community disagree with you on that, and has thoroughly debunked Blanchard's "autogynephilia" theory. In fact, the ICD-11 was update to de-pathologize transgenderism and remove it as a mental disorder.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-illness-world-health-organization/717758002/
https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/5/13/17938120/transgender-people-mental-illness-health-care
https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender

But feel free to tell everyone how they've been intimidated into doing so by a shadowy Jewish transgender conspiracy manipulating everyone behind the scenes.
 
Last edited:
I certainly didn't intend to imply that at all. (I just saw a statistic that 3% of the male population experiences autogynaephilia to some extent or another.)

I figured. But what does "It's really a lot commoner than we realise, from the Lumberjack Song down" mean, then? I'm pretty sure that song is popular with way more than a mere 3% of the male population.
 
I figured. But what does "It's really a lot commoner than we realise, from the Lumberjack Song down" mean, then? I'm pretty sure that song is popular with way more than a mere 3% of the male population.


Liking the Lumberjack Song isn't an expression of autogynaephilia. The song resonates because most people realise that kinky cross-dressing in otherwise macho males is something that actually happens. Therefore they find the song amusing. (Women find it amusing too. Both sexes recognise the type.)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom