https://www.france24.com/en/20190519-switzerland-guns-eu-aligned-firearms-control-vote
Everyone loves a gun law thread.
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Swiss chose tougher gun laws
- Thread starter GnaGnaMan
- Start date
Everyone loves a gun law thread.
From the link in the OP.
Ranb
I really know nothing about the country, but I don't think there will be police conducting searches of those homes they suspect of having unregistered guns.
Are the Swiss right wing anything like the American Tea Party?
Ranb
The Great Zaganza
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I don't know - what is the American Tea Party like these days except like a doormat for Trump?
Trump doormat. I like!
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
The interesting thing is that the the Swiss saw no public health or safety reason to do this. It was purely a diplomatic move, to gratify their neighbors. If I were a small landlocked nation in the middle of Europe, trying to maintain cordial neutrality, I'd be doing a bit of go along to get along.
Contrary to what you might infer from the thread title, Switzerland is not actually endorsing stricter gun control, or legitimizing arguments for stricter gun control.
When you think about it, this is actually kind of a story about economic bullying.
Contrary to what you might infer from the thread title, Switzerland is not actually endorsing stricter gun control, or legitimizing arguments for stricter gun control.
When you think about it, this is actually kind of a story about economic bullying.
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The Great Zaganza
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no, it's about having your priorities straight.
I'm not really sure what kind of crooked thought process would lead you there.
Is that something you cam up with yourself or are you just repeating it?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Is that what the French and Germans are telling themselves today? Bullying Switzerland over gun control is more important than reinforcing European amity?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
It's spelled out explicitly in your OP:
Switzerland is not an EU member, even though it is linked to the bloc through many bilateral agreements. It is a member of the Schengen Area, which grants open borders between states, and also of the Dublin accords, which regulates Europe’s asylum seeking process.
Approving the new gun legislation was crucial to maintaining warm relations with the EU and a “No” could threaten that, the Swiss government warned before the vote.
Approving the new gun legislation was crucial to maintaining warm relations with the EU and a “No” could threaten that, the Swiss government warned before the vote.
I'm not repeating anything you didn't say yourself when you started this thread.
The Great Zaganza
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It question is what the Swiss are telling themselves, not the rest if the EU.
And they think that slightly tighter gun laws are worth it to reap the benefits of their location: by some estimates, no country profits more from the EU as a non-member as Switzerland.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
All the more reason to give a little to get a little. To be clear: I'm not faulting the Swiss for making a pragmatic trade-off, here.
I'm just pointing out that the Swiss aren't actually making a public health and safety policy change. They're making a diplomatic and economic policy change.
I see how an American -or anyone who doesn't know the background - could jump to that false conclusion but tbh I think you still need to be rather biased nevertheless
Well, now you learned not to jump to conclusinos so that's good.
Maybe but where's the evidence for that assertion?
“Approving the new gun legislation was crucial to maintaining warm relations with the EU and a “No” could threaten that, the Swiss government warned before the vote.”
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
It's spelled out explicitly in your OP. I already cited the passage. Is there some other conclusion we should draw, other than literally "Approving the new gun legislation was crucial to maintaining warm relations with the EU and a “No” could threaten that, the Swiss government warned before the vote."?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
The Great Zaganza
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that isn't the conclusion, that is the premise.
The Conclusion is: a majority of Swiss voters value warm relations with the EU higher than having slightly laxer gun laws.
That was their decision. They could have rejected it - and it would certainly not have been the end of EU-Swiss relations.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
You're agreeing with me in increasingly hyperbolic terms, but I'll take it.
Ok. I will give you the lecture but don't complain about being patronized.
There are no border controls for people between the EU and Switzerland.
Think about what a border is. It is the line between two countries. Each of these countries can make its own laws without regard to the other. That's called sovereignty.
It may be legal for a person to possess a weapon in one country but not in the other. The same logic applies to all sorts of things like narcotics, hazardous materials. Then there are laws about taxes and standards and so on.
Think about this. Maybe one on one side of the border there is weak protection for intellectual property like brand names. Then one needs to intercept the counterfeit merchandise at the border or the brand owner will lose out on license fees.
Or maybe there is less drug enforcement. So drugs are interecepted at the border.
If a country wants to enforce its own laws on its territory then it needs to check whatever comes into its territory for compliance.
The EU and Switzerland have aligned their laws to the point where there was little to do at the border. So everyone could live with giving up border controls.
Unfortunately there has been some gun misuse which caused the EU to implement stricter gun control. Now the open border becomes an issue again. Its more liberal gun laws undermine EU sovereignty.
The obvious solution is to bring back border controls. Would an informed person call that "economic bullying"? Hmm?
As the swiss have now chosen to better control guns, that will no longer be necessary.
The border problem played a large role in the referendum. But there are many in Switzerland who favor stricter controls regardless. Eventually we don't know what the result would have been if the law had been debated on its own merits.
Hlafordlaes
Disorder of Kilopi
The motives for most decisions are multivariate, so one can read whatever one likes into this vote in those terms. Apart from individual motivations, however, the overall outcome and lack of noticeable fainting and screaming in any major headlines, as would be the case a certain elsewhere, is yet another example of how gun ownership is not generally considered a basic human right, easily the crux of any gun thread and oft-abused faux trump card. Another win for regulated coexistence using common sense.